Find solution
How much do the plates in Crossfit weigh?

"A block of solid gold the size of the golden plates would weigh about 200 pounds" (New Era Feb 2006, pp.34–37) How did Smith lift them?

  • Full quote in context: "Some historians believe the real golden plates were also made from an alloy that included gold. A block of solid gold the size of the golden plates would weigh about 200 pounds (90 kg), but the weight of the gold plates, as estimated by the few people who lifted them, was somewhere between 40 and 60 pounds (18 and 27 kg). An alloy of gold and another lighter metal and the air pockets between the plates could account for this difference in weight, say some historians." (http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=bf53092480e6c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1) BTW, the article doesn't disclose who the "historians" mentioned are. If anyone knows please include that in your answer. And if anyone could explain how they did electroplating in pre-Columbian America (from the article, "Electroplating coats the plates in a thin layer of a golden colored alloy of gold and silver, called electrum. Electrum is not as heavy or as precious as gold.") that would be appreciated. Overall this is an interesting article since Mormon Critics (like Bill McKeever - the gentleman in the video below) have been harshly accused of exaggerating - or even lying - by Mormons regarding the weight of the gold plates. However, New Era - which is an official publication of the LdS Church validates his assertion and conclusions regarding the weight of the gold plates. So apparently the LdS Church has quietly and subtly validated the basic assertion of Mormon Critics in regard to the weight of the Golden Plates as a result of this official church publication. So the key question remains: "How then, did Smith lift the gold plates - let alone run with them - given their incredible weight?"

  • Answer:

    I AM PINNING THIS ANSWER AS "GREAT ANSWER" SIMPLY TO GET IT RIGHT BELOW THE ORIGINAL QUESTION SINCE IT CONTAINS RELEVANT SUPPORTING EVIDENCE. For your reference, here are original source quotes regarding Joseph Smith running with the plates: "After removing the plates from the stone box, Joseph hid them in a birch log until preparations could be made at home for the plates. then he went to retrieve them. The plates were secreted about three miles from home...Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home." After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house." (Lucy Mack Smith, mother of Joseph Smith, in Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, 1853, pp. 104-105; Comp. reprinted edition by Bookcraft Publishers in 1956 under the title History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, pp. 107- 108); http://www.hismin.com/gold_plates.htm) Willard Chase recounted a basically similar story but the details differ: After this Smith went to Willard Chase's house and talked with him. Chase recalled the story that Smith told him, which is similar to the accounts of Smith's mother and his friend Joseph Knight "That on the 22d of September, he arose early in the morning, and took a one horse wagon, of some one that had stayed over night at their house, without leave or license; and, together with his wife, repaired to the hill which contained the book. He left his wife in the wagon, by the road, and went alone to the hill, a distance of thirty or forty rods from the road; he said he then took the book out of the ground and hid it in a tree top, and returned home. He then went to the town of Macedon to work. After about ten days, it having been suggested that some one got his book, his wife went after him; he hired a horse, and went home in the afternoon, staid long enough to drink one cup of tea, and then went for his book, found it safe, took off his frock, wrapt it round it, put it under his arm and run all the way home, a distance of about two miles. He said he should think it would weigh sixty pounds, and was sure it would weigh forty. On his return home, he said he was attacked by two men in the woods, and knocked them both down and made his escape, arrived safe and secured his treasure. -- He then observed that if it had not been for that stone, (which he acknowledged belonged to me,) he would not have obtained the book." (source = http://www.xmission.com/~research/about/inven2.htm) Some young people trying to reproduce the above event using copper (which is lighter than gold) and here was the result: And I found the following MormonThink article to be particularly good on this subject: http://www.mormonthink.com/runningweb.htm

Mister IT is trying to Liahona outta here at Answerbag.com Visit the source

Was this solution helpful to you?

Other answers

"According to Latter Day Saint belief, the golden plates (also called the gold plates or in some 19th century literature, the golden Bible) are the source from which Joseph Smith, Jr. translated the Book of Mormon, a sacred text of the faith. Some witnesses described the plates as weighing from 30 to 60 pounds, being golden or brassy in color, and being composed of thin metallic pages engraved on both sides and bound with one or more rings. Whether these were actual metal plates, perhaps manufactured by Smith himself, or whether the witnesses of the plates based their testimony on what they had seen in visions, is the subject of debate and speculation. Smith told several stories about the origin and nature of the golden plates that are accepted by most Latter Day Saints as a matter of faith and sometimes also on the basis of apologetic scholarship that thus far has received no mainstream academic recognition." "In the words of LDS historian Richard Bushman, "For most modern readers, the [golden] plates are beyond belief, a phantasm, yet the Mormon sources accept them as fact." Since Joseph Smith said he returned the plates to an angel after he finished translating them, their authenticity—if they existed—cannot be determined by direct physical examination. Most believing Mormons believe in the golden plates as a matter of faith." "Different people estimated the weight of the plates differently. According to Smith's one-time-friend Willard Chase, Smith told him in 1827 that the plates weighed between 40 and 60 pounds (18–27 kg), most likely the latter. Smith's father Joseph Smith, Sr., who was one of the Eight Witnesses, reportedly weighed them and said in 1830 that they "weighed thirty pounds" (14 kg). Joseph Smith's brother, William, said that he lifted them in a pillowcase and thought they "weighed about sixty pounds [27 kg] according to the best of my judgment". Others who lifted the plates while they were wrapped in cloth or enclosed in a box thought that they weighed about 60 pounds [27 kg]. Martin Harris said that he had "hefted the plates many times, and should think they weighed forty or fifty pounds [18–23 kg]". Joseph Smith's wife Emma never estimated the weight of the plates but said they were light enough for her to "move them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work". Had the plates been made of 24-karat gold (which Smith never claimed), they would have weighed about 140 pounds (64 kg)." Source and further information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates Further information: http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=bf53092480e6c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1 (your quote) http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Pearl_of_Great_Price/History I think that the issue has to do with believing in miracles.

iwnit

The New Era is published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and is geared towards youth of the Church (ages 12-18). However, like the other Church magazines, the content is not first approved by a General Authority. Each magazine has a staff and editors to weed out errors, but most articles don't hold much doctrinal weight. In this particular article, youth were making replicas of the Golden Plates for the Museum of Church History and Art. Shanna Butler, a staff writer at The New Era, reported on the youths' experience and gave some background. Most apologists don't argue that a solid block of gold of the dimensions of the Golden Plates would weigh about 200 pounds -- much heavier than the 40-60 pounds witnesses described. Apologists offer a standard set of explanations about the discrepancy -- material removed from the engravings, space between the individual pages, as a golden-colored alloy instead of pure gold. If you would have read the article, you would have realized that the youth electroplated their copper replicas; it does NOT say that's how the Nephite prophets created the originals. Also, Kirk Henrichsen - a senior exhibit designer - called the whole thing speculative, based on the best information they currently have, "but I’m sure if Mormon came to look at them he would just laugh!”

laie_techie

First, do the the golden plates exist. Secondly, if they do and if they did indeed weigh 200 pounds, Joseph Smith must have been one strong young man. Tucking 200 pound plates under his arm, walking, running, jumping and fighting three men while holding them would be a worlds strongest man dream come true. I used to dabble in power lifting so 200 pounds was nothing to me but carrying that much weight for three miles under adverse conditions as described in your story, is a whole different matter. Sorry to say, it sounds a bit far-fetched for my taste. Even carrying 60 pounds under the same conditions is quite a feat in and of itself. I cannot believe the story simply because of the strange beliefs the Mormons hold as a whole.

Parepidemos

I can lift 200 pounds.....indeed many folks can. Old Joe was a farmer right? No doubt the boy was in pretty good shape. But your right - it's most likely hogwash.

Nightwatchdog

Related Q & A:

Just Added Q & A:

Find solution

For every problem there is a solution! Proved by Solucija.

  • Got an issue and looking for advice?

  • Ask Solucija to search every corner of the Web for help.

  • Get workable solutions and helpful tips in a moment.

Just ask Solucija about an issue you face and immediately get a list of ready solutions, answers and tips from other Internet users. We always provide the most suitable and complete answer to your question at the top, along with a few good alternatives below.