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Who were the original illegal immigrants from a historical perspective?

Did past generations of immigrants really integrate faster?

  • I'm not talking about illegals here, only legal immigrants, so please save your anti-illegal rants for the many other questions where they're relevant. A lot of people state that one of the problems with Hispanic immigration is slow integration. Is their integration really slow, or is the problem that the immigrants are coming to parts of the country that never had many immigrants before, and where most of the Americans' families go back many more generations than the Irish, Italian and Polish families of the Northeast and Upper Midwest, so that people there, in the Southwest, have a skewed perspective on what's a reasonable rate at which to integrate? Just as an example, can you think of any Hispanics who are worse integrated than the Amish in Pennsylvania who have been in America for 200 years, yet still speak a form of German, use the word "English" to mean people other than their group, and have filed court cases to exempt themselves from the Social Security system?

  • Answer:

    This is actually an excellant question. I am a historian--and one of the areas that I have read extensively on is this very topic (below are a few good titles). The answer is that Hispanics are assimilating pretty much the same as other immigrant groups have in the past. There are two points to keep in mind. The first is that this is NOT a fast process. The actual immigrants, for the most part, do not assimilate completely into the surrounding culture. They do tend to form "ethnic enclaves" fror mutual support--and quite understandably are more comfortable with the ways and customs they grew up with, and within those enclaves especially, try to keep something of the familiar. The next generation will, for all practical purposes, be assimilated into the new society. It's sometimes hard to see this, since waves of immigration last usualy for decades and the generations overlap. The other factor is tha twithin the "receiving society"--not just American, this is a pattern that plays itself out in all societies--you always have a "nativist" group who resent and fear anyone who is different. They are, in a word, bigoted. And they make a point of trying to convince others that the newcomers "aren't integrating" are"lazy, or immoral," etc., etc. And--they usually succeed in the short term in fooling some otherwise unprejudiced people with their misinformation. That kind of propaganda and bigotry has been directed against EVERY immigrant group to the United States--from the Irish in the 1840s to Russian Jews, Italian Americans, Polish, Chinese, Japanese, and now Hispanics. Even the rhetoric is the same--but hten, bigiots aren't known for being creative and intelligent! In some cases, however, groups DO assimilate more slowly--this was especially true for decades of the Chinese-Americans. The reason was simple--discriminatory laws (in their case, restricting where they could live, work, or even whether they could marry) isolated thie Chinese ethnic group for dacades. They did not stay in "Chinatowns" and refuse to integrate--they were actively prevented from doing so. And--this is not a political rant, jsut a statement of sociiological fact--that IS happening with the "illegal" immigrants. In the abscence of a rational immigration policy, we are getting these immigrants anyway. But their illegal status prevents them from integrating into our society at the usual rate.

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The Amish model is acceptable because they run their own schools, demand nothing of us, pay their way and then some, have a practically non-existant crime rate, and do, in fact, expect to speak English at our stores, etc, rather than to have the rest of us speak German. They don't try to change our country to fit their model when interacting with us, rather than adapt to us (even their buggies DO have lights). They also have religious reasons for remaining separate (in but not of the WORLD not just our culture) and we respect that and its impacts. They are unique, however, as few others have the record they have.

DAR

Yes they did. They placed their loyalty to the United States and all they asked for was a chance to make it. There were no lines signing up for welfare. They worked to ensure their children spoke English. While they honored their heritage, they assimilated as quickly as possible to the ways of their new adopted country. The Amish are the ultimate Republicans. They want no part of the Government, but they do speak English and they follow our laws when they are in public. They do not try to shove their ways down our throat.

Lillian

Yes it is much slower, and much more painstaking. Some refuse to learn English. And whats our response?? To make everything bilingual for them.

Getting ready for glasses.

Legal immigrants tend to integrate rather quickly -- even today. It's the illegal aliens who have formed their own "sub-culture" and society within the country.

tunavamp

Yes, they did. Their only means of communication with the "old country" was by letter which took weeks or months to cross the Atlantic or Pacific. Today we have instant communications with all points on the Earth for pennies per minute and television and radio from the "old country" beamed directly into their living rooms by satellite or over the Internet. Using the Amish is a terrible example. They're a small sect who did not even integrate into European society where they came from. When they came here they never had the intention to integrate. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~Maybe if our jails were filled with Amish people would feel different about them.

Yak Rider

Well, it's not a statistic, but there were German-speaking communities where it was the dominant language over large parts of Texas from about the 1880's until in World War II (when there was obviously a lot of hostility towards the Fatherland). I think one sense in which it might have been faster in some places is that many previous waves of immigrants were in places like New York City, and it wasn't just people from one cultural background - i.e., there were Irish, German, Chinese, Italian, Jewish, etc. all crammed into one area and interacting. That made it harder to keep to yourselves. People tried, but I think over time the neighborhoods merged and they became American. The current wave includes mainly Spanish-speaking immigrants who are often in areas like the Germans were - rural or suburban, where you can basically stay away from everyone else in your spare time. I'd guess that it is a little slower than some prior generations of immigrants, but not so much that all of the current fears are justified. Eventually people will assimilate, we just need to make sure we try to encourage it.

argueguy

I think its somewhat true that non-hispanics tend to integrate faster.. http://www.ailf.org/ipc/infocus/2006_morethantemporary.pdf on page 4 and 5 shows this but since 1996 after tough immigration laws were passed more people are undocumented than Mexicans http://www.ailf.org/ipc/infocus/2006_achievingsecurity.pdf (page 4)

Petey V3.3

it depends....let's say there is a large number of a certain immigrant population. if a new immigrant of that background comes here, they'll be less inclined to integrate quickly, because there are probably towns and villages full of just his or her background, where the people speak the language of their country of origin. the more people of a given background come here, the less inclined the next generation of people from that background who come here are willing to integrate.

A Priori

Have no quotes but I do believe that in the days past immigrants were required to learn language (to an extent) along with history in order to become citizens now the system has been sped up to the point that they really don't require that any more it is more lax but to answer your question long ago they had no choice now they kinda do so you do have those that won't.

Nick

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