Is this what training has come down to?

There is a reason that 99% of the "trainers" working at Petsmart/PetCo are cashiers turned into obedience instructors. Anyone with any real dog training experience won't work as a trainer there for long, and this is why. Your hands are tied to the company's policies on training, and you can't actually help anyone. The classes at these stores are based on PC image, rather than results. As National chains, they want cookie-cutter, "pet parent"-friendly training, and this is the program their consultants designed for them. As you can see, it's basically useless. But at $100+ a pop (despite the fact that probably only 35% of the students ever complete a course), it is profitable!

Ugh box store training classes. They have ruined more dogs than they have helped. The trainers are so scared and brain washed from corporate management that if they were to give a proper correction, they most likely would be fired. Clicker training done wrong just like any method is not going to work. In fact it can almost be considered a cruelty especially when dogs are being clicked (rewarded) for being aggressive. These are the dogs that end up in the vet's office for that final needle poke. When I take my dog into a box store for the training distractions, I get a lot of people to step up and notice. But than again, my dog will do attention heeling off leash with distractions. He will also do a sit, down, and stand stay with me out of sight. He will do a straight and drop on recall through a group of people. People ask me where I train. I tell them that I trained my dog myself. If they insist, I will hand them my card out in the parking lot. I used to do it in the store but the store management got upset about that. Some of my students also proof their training at the local box store which also gets me some more business. The schnauzer would have been given an understandable correction if it were in my class. (Yes I'm one of those evil Koehler trainers)I don't give treats or rewards for bad behavior. It is also not okay to be bad so I don't use "It's Okay" crap either. I don't baby talk talk and tell owners to do the same. Yes I use corrections. A correction doesn't have to be a collar pop, it can be a word or an action that means you are wrong. To many people have gotten into this mind set that dogs need to be cuddled and coddled in their training. What good dog training is about is making the dog understand what is expected of him at that time with that command. It is an easy concept that too many people try to over analyze.

For what? I'm guessing for looking away from your dog. But the woman should have corrected him way before then and THEN used the clicker/given him a treat. I've never understood it either. There is a place for rewarding good behaviour obviously. But I don't see why you should ignore the bad. You don't have to be cruel, just firm. In my household, I'm known as the mean one for not "just ignoring him" when he does something wrong. Would these people just ignore their dog for chewing on a wire, for example, and reward them for not? I just think people cannot differentiate between "firm" and "cruel". I do not beat my dog when he does something wrong. That would be cruel. What I do is give him is a swift correction and physically MAKE him do what I tell him to if needs be. I am being firm.

First, Petco and PetSmart are NOT the place to bring a dog to be trained. I look at these "trainers" as absolute amateurs - barely know what they are doing. Second, I am a huge advocate for positive reinforcement and clicker training. The clicker is simply a "marker" for behaviors - not a reward. I do competition obedience and agility with my dogs and have found no method more effective for training than the clicker. Some dogs absolutely need "corrections", especially strong willed high drive dogs like GS's or other working breeds that can potentially become dominant or aggressive. It's definitely a balance between the two for a well rounded dog. I feel corrections need to be done properly though, too many people don't have a clue about proper corrections in terms of severity and timing. Just my 2cents...

I think its mostly done for the "owners" to make themselves feel better about treating "Fluffy" well. God forbid you actually show some backbone with a carnivorous animal....that would not be politically correct. "Fluffy" might get depressed, or worse yet, rebellious....and then you are going to have to take him to a doggie behaviorist and spend all this time getting down the root of "Fluffy's" emotional issues and such..... ***banging head on desk****

People actually PAY for that service? With money? As in legal tender?

Not everywhere. I sit in Petco with my foster dogs, and we are right next to the area where the trainer gives lessons, so I frequently watch and listen to what is going on there. She doesnt use clicker training, and she does have the people correct their dogs. She is not a cashier, she only trains, and I think she gives lessons at several of the stores in this area. Im sure (working for a corporate entity that does not want any of its customers offended) that their trainers have to put up with more than they should. I watched her work with one woman with a hyper, easily distracted Boston terrier. She had a prong collar on the dog, and a daughter (probably 8-10 years old.) The kid kept wandering through the training area, distracting the dog, and even pulled on the leash a few times. The mother said absolutely nothing to her. (No wonder the dog is a mess). I would have given the kid a sharp correction. :o)

I think everyone knows how I feel on this one. I am still trying to get past the Schnauzer named FLUFFY> MAN... I would Yap too. There is nothing wrong with using touch and sound to train a dog. We have done it for years...nothing new. But the dog has to learn what those things mean. Had that been my Schnauzer... no... that would not have been mine. He is an obedient dog. Most Schnauzers train well. They are obstinate as H though and they are not going to respond to the all sound method. But I have never seen a dog that will. There has to be touch. What kills me are the people who think any time you put your hand on your dog it is abuse. Touch does not have to hurt or mangle. The dog needs to know who is in charge and a clicker is not going to do that. My Schnauzer, in the early days, would have gone to see what that annoying sound was. And sometimes I think this is what the dogs first respond to that makes so many people instant believers when they see this. They do not understand that once the dog realizes what it is, he will lose interest. OH. But I forgot. When he comes to the clicker, you give him a treat. Well that is just wonderful, if he does not have the neighbor's cat in his mouth when he comes running to the sound of the clicker to get his treat. I am still concerned why people think being tough with a dog means hitting or beating or kicking or abusing. And the clickers seem to think that. My dogs listen. I have never abused them and I do not use a clicker. They know whose in charge at my house. (Now...do you think the clicker might work on the husband?) Just like you said with the leash pop. I doubt you drew blood or left him scarred. A little sting maybe, but not abuse and it really does not hurt. You are preventing him from becoming a nuisance to others. Now if you swing the darn thing with all your might and keep hitting... well... the dog certainly would not obey you. He would be over in a corner somewhere shivering.

That's... SAD. Why is it people feel like corrections are "evil"? A simple pop of the leash is far from cruel... people who think it is haven't seen real cruelty. This makes me curious as to how they control their kids. What if THEY act like brats? I surely hope they dont let them run wild like little devils and give them ice cream to get them to settle down- that's sure what they do with their dogs. As to your question? Yes, THIS is what training is coming down to. People who go "SSH" and roll their dogs over and magically claim they are trained, and the people who think a simple correction is a sin. VERY sad.