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DS: I have a simple problem and need some constructive help?

  • This is going to be a bit long as I need to set the whole scene in order for people to understand. Okay, here we go. I have 9 dogs. (2 are my daughter's). Five of my 9 play Flirt Pole every night for at least 45 minutes to an hour. (The other dogs are either not interested and/or too old). The Flirt Pole I made is a lunge whip with a piece of leather attached to the end. I use it on the ground, in the air etc. It is fun for the dogs and I enjoy it. Before I get to the problem I am going to explain what is NOT a problem. (Stay with me) My youngest Dachshund, Terrier mix, French Bulldog all weigh under 11 pounds. They play with Maverick (my daughter's Golden) and Launi (my American Pit Bull Terrier.) When I have 3 small ones in the mist of 2 dogs weighing 48 and 60 pounds, rules must be put in place. Launi will NOT try to remove the flirt leather from any of the small dogs. I have taught her not to. She is too strong and could easily hurt them unintentionally. Maverick (the Golden who is very spoiled) has to be reminded not to go after the flirt when it is in the mouth of a smaller dog. (When Mav is going to get this is a mystery to me.) ALL of the dogs will *leave it* when told if I place it on the ground. This is good. The problem lies with Launi. I need to give some information before we get to the problem. Launi will allow me to remove anything from her mouth. She will drop and leave it when I tell her to. It can be anything. Makes no difference. So will all of my other dogs. The problem: When Launi gets the leather in her mouth she will not release it. Of course, she has 4 other dogs wanting it but I can get the smaller dogs to *back off* with no problem. Maverick will try to take it from her (and if Maverick has it Launi will try the same thing). So here I am with Launi walking around not dropping/releasing the leather. Often times I have to drop the Flirt Pole and walk away. She will then let it go. But this takes up time in which we could all be playing. If I put her in a *down* she will release it from her mouth but hold her paws on it. Then I have to pry it out from under her front paws. I have used my break stick (which works but I hate having to use this tool to get it out of her mouth. I have used the *done with play* as mentioned above.) I have put my hand in her mouth and if I get it at just the right moment, I can pry it out. Otherwise, forget it. The power in those jaws is massive. (PLEASE do not tell me this is dangerous. She is not going to put teeth on me. I know my dog) I know Launi does this because she does not want any of the other dogs to get her prize and I do not expect her to give it up for them but I DO want her to give it to me without a darn struggle. I am wide open to any ideas which are constructive. For anyone who does not know, *popping* a APBT on the nose, head or any other place is like trying to run your fist into a brick wall.

  • Answer:

    You need to start training the "drop" command possible differently than you may have in the past. This strip of leather is providing something very important to the dog and she doesn't want anyone else to have it. My recommendation would be to get 2 pieces of leather on ropes or make mini flirt poles out of a hunk of PVC and a rope for this training. When she gets one, show her the other. Make it come alive. When she leaves on for the other, label the behavior "Drop". Forcing something out of a dogs mouth just makes them run away or hold on tighter and you've discovered the true meaning of "Bully" in that they can be ever so bull headed. I don't feel I have to go into detail here because you've obviously trained your dogs in may ways. I'm just not sure if you've done the exchange method. What your're teaching the dog is that when I sat "drop" there is ALWAYS something of higher value in my hand. Label it a few times then ask for it. If they don't predict and drop, go back to titling after you've lured the behavior. Do this while controlling your environment for success. Teach the method with no dogs around then bring one dog in at a distance, then closer then two dogs etc. Keep it it so you're winning. It'll take some patience but once she learns she can let it go and the game continues she'll get it. ADD: One other thing to add to the mix. Once you can get the drop with minimal distractions, if she gives you the leather, then continue the game. If you have to take it, then the game ends and leather goes out of site for 2 minutes. Then you can try again and adjust the behavior. The goal here is to teach her that EVERY time i give it up I get to play, but EVERY time I don't the fun ends.

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I almost think there is too much detail here. If a dog will not reliably Drop or Leave an item, that dog doesn't play tug with it, regardless of breed. She's getting away with hanging on to the toy today, and she's also stopping the entire game and getting your exclusive attention--you're rewarding what you don't want! I'm not 100% clear on whether she will Drop or Leave the Flirt Pole if she is the only dog present. If she is, then try adding one or two dogs back at a time until she reliably Drops or Leaves the leather with other dogs present, and then build up to the group. Even though we all want all of our dogs to be able to do everything, it's not always possible. Sometimes, we work around the limits of a particular dog. ;)

Jessie

She knows what you want, and is refusing to obey. Since you cannot physically remove it, I would just put the remote collar on her, and correct when she does this. Tell her to leave it, and make her back away from it. It is guarding behavior, and she is clinging to something that is yours, not hers, which to my mind warrants a correction. With my own dogs a firm hand on the back of the neck is enough to get them to give up anything, but obviously with her it is not.

ms manners

Well you know that all this is because those evil pits have locking jaws. Just Kidding You could just have her back off completely and have her sit before she is allowed to have it until you say go for it since Pit can get very persistent and that would allow you to own it. Let her have it for a moment the have her release before she get really into it and practice that. Not a great answer but it is the first thing I thought of.

Rotten Rotts Lets Restore Sanity in the DS

You already have your answer. If she doesn't release it the first time you ask, the game is over. You are training her to hold on as tight as possible when you're prying her mouth open and all that. If she's as trained as you claim, then she knows exactly what you want. If she doesn't do it when asked, the game is over. You then can choose to begin the game again when everyone is under control.

Aduial

I am missing something here, right The main fun of the flirt pole is in the dog only ever getting hold of the lure bait occasionally and ideally not at all, and yet you let them play tug with it? Why would someone do that except to wind their dogs up and make them super-possessive? Get a second flirt pole and play with the other dogs thus keeping the game going and the possession a dead-end reward.

G'hound

This dog is possessive about this.........and with any possessiveness or obsessiveness I would not play the 'game' with this dog.............no idea what you mean by 'flirt pole' but it sounds like an obsessive 'game'...just like throwing a ball and fetch constantly....so for his dog I would not encourage it by choosing another exercise

Maxi

1. bribe it from her with a high value treat, you may want to have everyone sit for their treat and when you get down the line to her if she hasn't dropped the leather then put the treat back in your pocket and walk away 2. have another toy for her and offer it as an exchange for the leather 3. have another flirt pole to continue the game without her

TK

I always have a second leather strap in my pocket to trade off. Cant give in and just use the newer one as the not dropping pup doesn't learn anything. I show the new leather and my pup is usually up to dropping the old one in hopes of getting the new. Then I put the new one back in my pocket and we go on with the game. Best I can offer.

Mama Tex

Simple- teach her "trade!" Find something that is more appealing to her than the toy, either another small toy, or a treat. When she has the leather in her mouth, drop the pole, and offer her the alternative reward. Make it really appealing, talk it up, but only let her have it when she has dropped and moved away from the leather. Then give her her reward, praise her, and resume play. Just make sure you teach her to fully release and remove herself from the leather, don't try to play tug of war or anything else. She gets her prize ONLY when the leather is dropped and ignored. Try to give her the reward with one hand while at the same time removing the leather with the other hand slowly and casually- don't snatch at it too fast or she'll see the movement and go back after it. I'm not against a smack on the nose when it's needed, but it should never be used in conjunction with play items anyway- you'll just confuse her that she's not allowed to have her play toys at all. That would only be appropriate if she had an item she was never ever supposed to touch.

Dreamer

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