Can someone explain "bite inhibition" as it relates to leaving puppies together beyond 6 weeks?

An experienced PRO raising a litter is LIGHT-YEARS beyond some moronic BYB dumping UN VACCINATED &wormed & correctly weaned ,fed,cleaned,trained TOO YOUNG crap on a sucker just *because* they ARE ignorant cheap & lazy!!! They want to peddle their junk as fast as they can.......just to AVOID proper care & feeding. That takes WORK & MONEY! RESPONSIBLE breeders are working toward a GOAL & 6 wks. is TOO YOUNG to see if a pup has the potential of reaching that goal. You can't manage to tell the difference between YOU OR I OR another EXPERIENCED breeder handling pups & some BYB MORON *DUMPING* them TOO EARLY???? Then *YOU* aren't as smart as you'd like to assume...dear. smooch All the new-age AR-brainwashed terms =bite-inhibition & separation-anxiety & behaviors ,etc.=being bandied about by the RANK AMATEURS here are JUST words they've picked out of the gutter & REGURGITATED w/OUT THOUGHT

I dont understand...you are saying that you take puppies from the litter at 6 weeks, yet you are telling Blunt Object that they don't leave the kennel? I cannot explain "bite inhibition" and I'm NOT a breeder, but I think the difference here is that you are a professional trainer---most people who buy pups (even if they have dog experience) are NOT. And every good breeder does things differently---most of the breeders who sell pups at 6 weeks do it because the pups have a higher "cute" factor at this age (not sure why)--basically because they feel they can get more money if sold at this age (or that they can just dump the pup and be rid of it/them)--good breeders do NOT do this. And as Blunt Object brought up (I believe) the extra time could be beneficial in deciding which pups are the best for show/work, and which are the best for pets. Add: You're still not selling the puppies to people who may or may not know how to handle them. Responsible breeders find good homes for their pups, but even knowledgable owners may not be as qualified as trainers as, say, you or the trainer are. People assume that the pups who were purchased before 8 weeks are from a bad breeder not because the breeder may or may not have sperated the pups, but because the breeder has sold the pup off before anything could be determined.

Bite inhibition is a way of far oversimplifying the traing and socialization process of a dog. And, for the record, I do not agree with it as an integral role in that either. Bite inhibition refers to the process of when a dog bites a person, an object, or another dog, if it receives negative feedback from doing so, it will learn to "inhibit" it's biting action. Sort of the philosophy of if I put my hand in a pot of boinling water, I will learn not to do so another time. And of course, yes, the dog who is "biting back" gets positive feedback because it stops being bitten!! So certainly you will end up with a litter of some dominant, some submissive puppies. That is the way it happens in the wild as a pack of dogs as well. But raising puppies to fit into human society is different. Bite inhibition amongst puppies refers to the process by which if one puppy bites its littermate, and gets bitten back, it will thereby "learn" not to bite again. And this philosophy feels that leaving the litter together will "naturally" teach the puppies not to bite each other, and that process will "feed" into other areas, for instance not biting people. Who is doing the teaching? Other puppies. Like I said, the problem is, this is WAY oversimplified. It is the same as saying if I leave my child in daycare for all of his learning, the other children will "teach" him to be a good person and socialize him how to act with others. But, as everyone know, MANY other factors are involved. Leaving a litter of puppies together beyond when the puppies are able to be properly nourished on their own (regardless of how many weeks that may be) is NOT the way to train a dog, nor assure a dog more likely not to bite, or pee on the floor, or chew your couch apart. Yes, they may learn some types of behavior, but none that are far reaching enough to matter when they are "little sponges." The outside world has a far greater impact onto who the dog turn out to be. If a child grabs the toys away from all the other children at daycare, and is put in time-out for it, the child learns not to grab the toys at daycare. If he comes home and grabs all the toys from his sister, and gets away with it, he will continue to take her toys. If at daycare, while grabbing all the toys, one bully punches him when he grabs his, he learns not to grab that particular bullies toys. This does not shape his behavior or peronality. It is only him becoming situationally conditioned. If he has a consistent parent/adult/teacher who teaches him grabbing toys is innappropriate and unnacceptable behavior, he learns exactly that. It works the same way with dogs. And trainers and owners are supposed to be the consistent parent/adult/teacher. And that will override whatever might be taught to a young puppy by it's peers.

Dutch? I answered a question about the negatives of taking a pup from the mother before 8 weeks (and I got about half a dozen thumbs down and no thumbs up). I explained the negatives are ONLY physical (for instance if you took a pup from it's mother at 4 or 5 weeks you run the risk of dehydration because the pup is probably not fully weaned, or handreared pups with no access to it's mother's milk catching a lot of "colds" because of the lack of inherited immunities from mother's milk). Bite Inhibition is the dumbest new Petsmart idea to pop up yet....your pup bites you, you yelp like a less dominant pup, and walk away? Wow! What a way to teach your pup who's the boss! Why not take a lesson from the pup's pack leader (mom) and put him on his a** when he gets too frisky! Secondly there's this myth that they learn something inbetween 5-8 weeks...social skills and such...seriously, if you think a DOG remembers jack diddly from being 8 weeks old you've gone past personifying dogs and have moved on to giving them supernatural powers. I also brought up the fact of pups becoming "doggy" by staying together being more of a concern than pups not learning socialization skills (which are instinct and don't need to be taught anyway, slap a strange handreared dog in the mouth, I bet he pulls his lips back in a threatening gesture without having learned it from anybody...I'm being sarcastic by the way...). The only half good excuses I saw were the argument that dogs that work in teams (sled dogs, hounds) need a degree of dogginess, that makes enough sense to me so I'll let that go. Dutch you're making perfect sense to me brother, I tend to separate my pups as well.

I don't see what is so horribly inconceivable about the idea that dogs learn how hard to bite and when to back off from other puppies and the dam. I believe that playing with their littermates and being disciplined by their dam teaches them how much pressure is too much, and when enough is enough. I also think that two people breeding and training for dogs that bite, and bite HARD, might think this idea ridiculous...but then, bite inhibition is not something you WANT. There are no degrees of bite with protection dogs, correct? It's all or nothing. You also want dogs that are bonded to people. It's been explained to me by someone with 30 years in protection work/ringsport training that you take puppies from their litter early specifically to AVOID them learning to control their bite, and specifically to ENSURE that they are concerned only with YOU. So I can see where you're coming from. But that *doesn't* mean everyone should come from the same place, or that any other place is Bullsh*t. I received a high-content wolfdog into rescue a couple of years ago that was taken from his litter at 5 weeks in order to help him "bond" with people. He was 7 months old when we took him. The dog was friendly and sweet, but when he played with you, he bit like an alligator. Whatever came between his jaws got clamped, all or nothing. He would smile and wag his tail while you extracted your hand from his mouth, and then move to your wrist. He didn't get it. When you corrected him, he let go...but his next grab was as hard as his last. "Easy" was not in his vocabulary. I honestly think he didn't understand the concept of play-biting, and I believe it had to do with being removed from his litter early. I don't think it had a damn thing to do with his genes. Wolves know how to play without damaging. And even puppies who haven't been properly trained about nipping don't bite like that.

What an interesting question! Really got me thinking, I'm not a breeder at all, just an owner, but what you say makes a lot of sense. However, I would say 7 weeks is a better time ONLY because the puppies go from being dominant/submissive in group/pack situation to starting from scratch again, often on their own in strange surroundings. Wouldn't that make a dominant puppy less dominant, especially if he had owners who would not allow dominant behaviour patterns? I can only speak from personal experience. We have a 2-year Dobermann and a 5-month-old Border Terrier and got them both at 7 weeks. The Dobermann was from a litter of nine (and we got to choose from five bitches). In the litter, she seemed to be near the top of the pack (definitely more than three of the other bitches). Yet now, she is a very laid-back, placid dog. The Border Terrier was one of a litter of four - all males. He was the largest, but not the most dominant. Yet even at five months, he holds his own with the Dobe - mainly where toys are concerned. So, basically my 'argument' is - does the dominant thing always apply after the move to a new family? Curtis - we used the 'yelp' to counteract puppy-biting (but not the walking away), and both our dogs stopped pretty quickly. The Dobe started again at about eight months, but we just put two fingers on the top of her muzzle and tapped sharply. She stopped within a week. In closing, I think that too many owners get too defensive when people like yourselves put up a good argument or discussion - but I confess I am one of those people who shoots down possible supporters of BYBs (mainly because I think some posters see cutesy-wutesy dogs and fall prey to the whole 'designer-dog' thing, which must fuel BYBs). I wouldn't advocate later than 8 weeks purely because of the socialisation period being so short. Thanks again for a thought-provoking question!

Well I had a pregnant stray that I took in and i gave 5 of the 8 pups away 2 days prior to being 8 weeks....like you said all they did was fight and the same ones always won...(I talked to the humane society and she said at least 6 weeks)...I kept my puppy and I kept my neighbors until 7 weeks exactly and my aunts until 9 weeks. My puppy never has had a nipping problem and was very easily house trained. My neighbors puppy nips a little but not much. The one I kept until 9 weeks nips horribly! I do not know but my trainer told us if we get a rottie she would prefer we get it no later than 7.5 weeks and enroll it in training immediately. She said they start her habits then. Personally all in all I think it worked out pretty good parting at 7aprox 7 weeks and while I got a lot of slack on here none of the pups that left them are bite happy....