More thoughts on dog training "methods"; in relation to our individual choices of the "type" and "purpose"?

Ooooooooooo...fun time. Ok,for basics,any dog requires the same training.....all learn the basics the same way. Patience,persistence & perspiration......practice practice practice. Correct undesirable behavior instantly & firmly-tempering firmness to the individual. If you allow a behavior,you approve it. Reward desired behavior-instantly & again,gauged per dog. The more esoteric "vocations" ;-) may call for adjustments. YOU might be on your dawg like a chicken on a junebug for the same thing *I* would be praising. I DO adjust,for the individual......but how MUCH not the HOW. Dog A may need BIG cheering on & equally firm corrections. B may need near whispered praise...or even no interference at all-it's a distraction. Yes,there are general breed characteristics to understand for optimum effectiveness. One begins to expect a dog to show variations in lots of aspects of the same job.....it's great to have a tool-box to reach into in certain situations :-)

WOW...holy crap...this is the longest question I have ever seen. Ok, I'll play...as far as general methods, Infinitely superior did a great job in answering the general question. When it comes to dogs, I do enjoy the harder ones, the ones that present a challenge, the ones that can take a correction and come back without shutting down! Of course my more esoteric methods will change with each dog, but, the result will always be the same...a great dog with realistic OB and protection work or detection or sport! Teach with motivational methods and then use compulsion to proof. I have no problem using ANY tool I think will get the job done, whatever that may be!! As far as being confrontational...it depends..I am the nicest guy when you meet me here, in person and under general circumstances. I am not so social in the gym when working out because of my mind set there and the fact that I take that part of my life VERY seriously and I am a TOTAL prick at work, especially if I am deployed somewhere in the middle east. The warrior mentality will always be there due to genetic and past military issues!!! My dogs, well, I will tell you this...it takes 3 years of training to achive the LOWEST title in the NVBK and it is the hardest dog sport in the world, period!! What did I forget here...not sure, but, if you need something else explained do it before the question gets deleted!!

"Temperate"? lol...OK. When I started training, I dealt with all breeds...90% were problem dogs. I had a huge number of Chows, Shar Peis, poorly bred Rottweilers, "Show" Shepherds...and loads of "Lap" dogs & mixes. Positive reinforcement (NOT to be confused with Positive ONLY) has always been a part of the training...as well as compulsion. A large number of the dogs I worked with had to be trained with a LOT of improvising....agility for confidence, starving, hanging, treats, passive dominance, redirection for aggression, and patience in general for some very "confused" dogs. When I was younger, I loved nothing more than getting my hands on something that wanted to kill me...it was exhilarating! The bigger & nastier, the better. After about 3500 of those, I chose to move primarily to Working GSD's. Generally, I'd say the closest thing to how I train would be Koehler. I can't help but reach into my past experience when dealing with any particular dog though. I'd have to say my method is to "Train the dog"...the quickest, most effective way possible....whatever it takes to ensure forward progress with every session. I never put the leash on with a set "Plan" in mind. I may have a goal....but how I get there depends on what the dog "brings to the table" that day, and every minute that we're working together. So...no I haven't altered..and yet, I alter constantly. I chose Working GSD's because I love their drives and intelligence. The challenge now, is selecting the correct dog for each client. Again, my "Method" is to TRAIN THE DOG. If someone happens to know a method....that has nothing to do with whether or not they can train a dog. Look at all the "Canine College" graduates.....the majority can't train a dog to eat, sleep or sh*t....but they know a method.

I choose my method of training based on what seems to WORK with my dog. not some misguided "review" someone gives me online or otherwise. She is a companion, mine, and i plan to get her into therapy work. Her poor attention span drove me to try Koehler (since i'm NOT going to be carrying treats around 24/7 and CAN'T for her testing or during therapy work itself) - and hey, it worked! To each their own, though. If you like pos. reinf. then good for you. I'm not putting down one method or another. I've used positive stuff myself when my dog was a pup and it worked to an extent, but now i want her OFF of treat reliability and want her under my control 100% of the time. I DO consider it to be highly ignorant to say that ALL dogs should be trained with ONE universal method, and that method HAS to be a "positive re-enforcement" type.

I chose my method of training because it works for ALL dogs. If anyone begs to differ Exhibit A: My 1 time fear biting teddy bear Boots (Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix) Exhibit B: My very shy, soft, inbred Dachshund rescue who came to me with NO FUR and bad teeth (still enjoys a raw diet with all 4 of her teeth that are left, lol). When you use the marker system of training it's non-confrontational which means you can use it on soft dogs and on handler hard dogs. Once the dog has learned different behaviors a simple "No" and putting the dog back into position BUILDS drive to do the exercise correctly so they can receive their reward. In a lot of other methods, a correction is issued instead and the dog goes DOWN in drive. But in the end a dog who defiantly disobeys or disrespects you as a pack leader needs to be corrected. Every dog on the planet has done, is doing, or will do something that warrants a correction. I don't care what breed or how soft or if the poor thing has been "abuuuuused". If you don't give a timely correction when it's needed? You're training that negative behavior they just exhibited. "If you ain't correcting it, you're training it". Edit - Btw - The #1 and #2 argument against my methods are: "Well I won't have treats 24/7 so I don't train with them/I want to train my dog to mind me not his stomach" well...that's why I have a corrections phase, to teach the dog he MUST obey whether I have treats or not, this argument is null. The #2 argument is "But I have an Aussie/Border Collie/Abused/Shy dog and corrections just aren't for my Binky!"...well if you fail to give a correction when needed you can either A: Learn to live with the problems you're creating or B: Will be required to give more and more serious corrections later down the road. There are 3 phases to training: Learning: Where you show a dog what you want and motivate with treats and toys. The Corrections Phase: Where you show a dog it MUST obey the commands you taught it from phase 1 by correcting the dog when it fails to obey. And The Distractions Phase: Where you take the dog to new locations of varying distraction and use corrections to teach the dog that it must obey, no matter where you are, who or what is there, because you said so. Marker training and keeping a dog in drive: http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/8-13-09-news.flv

My method of training suits my dog's personality and sometimes geared towards their best traits. Yes, I altered my methods based on which dog I am training at the time. My labs do dock diving - but not my Shih-Tzu. So yes, I find activities based on the breed and follow through with training for that activity. But all of mine have the basic obedience training. I am also looking into Search and Rescue training for my younger lab because he is more active and is quite the "sniffer" - he uses his nose to find things much more than my older lab does. So that is a good example of training based on his trait. As for challenges....I am currently in Competition Obedience training with a 12 month old lab. Have you ever seen an active, prey driven, curious 12 month old lab? He's doing very well and just this week I feel that he and I have over come a huge obstacle in our training - he actually stayed in his sit / stay while smaller dogs and excited ones pranced all around him and I was at the other end of the room. That was made me so proud!

I agree that different people like different kinds of dogs. For myself, I prefer calm, intelligent, rather independent dogs.....very clingy dogs bug the heck out of me, and very high energy dogs irritate me. (Of course, in fostering I sometimes have to deal with both...but there is a party when they find their new owners :o).) Obviously the same techniques will not work equally well with a "hard" dog and a "soft" dog, and there are a lot of techniques to choose from. Some of my approach comes from my horse training background. I have had to make adjustments, since dogs and horses are different. However, many things are the same, since they are both social animals. With both horses and dogs you need to inspire a balance of fear (respect) and trust. Many problem dogs (and horses) start on one end of the spectrum or the other, and need to be moved toward the middle. I am always open to new ideas on how to do that. If an approach seems sensible to me, I will try it. If it works, I keep it. If not, I discard it. I tend to see a new foster dog as a puzzle to be solved, and while it may sometimes be frustrating, when I am successful, that is my reward. The more difficult the challenge, the greater the reward when it is accomplished. I tend to lose interest in both dogs and horses once they are trained....for me, getting there is most of the fun. :o) But thats probably good...it makes it easier for me to let my foster dogs go.

"Yes, yes. It seems like this is a lecture...it is prelude to some questions. I just can't help but ramble. Fortunately I find communicating with dogs much easier" === Good thing too, dogs might have more patience to sit through all that than I do - but then unfortunately, dogs can't read. You train ANY dog with positive reinforcement - praise and treats -- that's it. All the rest is talk, talk, talk. Note: you are comparing our "human society" with the way people train dogs??? Wow -- interesting thought. As to "no consequences", I should think anyone with an ounce of brain could figure out that undesirable behavior on the part of a dog is obviously met with a stern "no" and no reward - doesn't take more than that to get the idea across. Haven't ever had to wrestle a dog to the ground and roll him over like the much praised "dog whisperer", and I sure don't have to smack dogs to get them to behave - a spray of water stops aggression fast enough. Key is not to let any nonsense start.

WOW ! ! Don't know exactly how to answer your question. First method training may not work on all dogs. That is why I have used behavior modification & use the individual dogs temperament & behavior dictate what will be necessary for me to get the dog motivated to preform a specific command. Most dogs learn by method training but sometimes you have to step out of the court & modify your training due to specific issues you may have with a dog. Now there isn't much of a challenge in basic obedience cause it is so standardized, same command & same correction. In basic obedience I teach dogs to watch my body movements for their clue as to what is next. & not just to follow commands. I don't use leash clues nor hand signals. My challenges was to bring out aggression when there wasn't much to work with. I also groomed dog & my challenges then were to get around the untrained aggressive dog so that I could groom it. After understanding aggression I was able to work on dogs that Vets muzzled & other groomers wouldn't touch. I specialized in behavioral problems & I had a lot of them. I had brushers & bathers that couldn't handle the dog so I did the dog by myself so no one would be hurt. I think God had a hand in this cause I was able to work wonders on these guys. Many owners said they were so proud of their dogs after they got them home cause they were so well behaved. Unfortunately they did not maintain the dicipline & I had the same issues the very next time. After a while the dog knew they couldn't get away with their nastiness & started to behave with me. Some where dropped off with out their owners coming in with them. They were let out of the car & the dogs came running to my gate to be let in. The dogs did not shiver & shake in fear like they do with some groomers. Most of my clients were refered by Vets. Having trained dogs in all phases of aggression work & then working on the little pets I'd have to say my biggest challenge was the little pets & not the motivating of the aggress work. There is a difference between working with a fear biter verses an aggressive dog. So in handling one has to be aware of the individual animal & use proper training ways to get across the both dogs. It is so individualistic that method training could be a hazard. I don't know if I answered your question or if I was just beating around a bush.