Why do so many people attribute *socializing and training* as the most important part of having a dog?

Because the dog could have the best temperament in the world - if you don't raise the dog properly and give it the structure through training that it needs (especially related to some specific breeds) then the dog will be ruined and most likely a danger to society. Training is the most important thing for a dog. Socializing is important to me to an extent. I believe in socializing your dog to make it accustomed to every day outside life (cars, people, noises, etc.). I don't believe dogs need to be best friends with other dogs - I think it is a good idea to socialize a dog with BALANCED dogs while it is a puppy so it isn't completely socially retarded when it is around other dogs - but a well-trained dog should be neutral to other dogs. So yes of course genetics play a big role in a dog's temperament (refrencing your question example) - that will always be a #1 factor when it comes to a dog that isn't all "there". But most of the time people buy a strong breed, it's temperament is good and they ruin it by not raising it and training it properly.

You want the truth...I will tell you the 2 reasons why people spew crap like that... 1) They don't know better, they don't want to learn and they believe that love, affection and treats are all it takes to make a dog good. 2) They know better, but, if they admit to it, they also will admit that 80% of dogs born today need to be put down, and, God forbid any dog should have to die. Genetics FIRST, always, forever, period, end of. You can take the most genetically screwed up dog in the world and socialize and train til you die, you STILL have a POS in your hands. You can take a dog of superior genetics and leave it in a kennel for 2 years, when you take it out, you will STILL have a dog that can be trained and socialized because it is sound in the head. Training and such sometimes will cover up bad genetics and that is what most people hope will happen, but, those same bad genetics will come up when you least expect them and you will have to deal with them, one way or another. Lastly, great dogs are BORN, not made. Hope I helped. ADD: Nikko...the Vick dogs were dogs that were bred to fight, not human aggressive, that is why some of them made it. The ones that were not, were killed. As far as spending time with a dog training it, sure, you can cover up behaviors like I mentioned, if you know what you are doing, but, that is not changing genetic issues that will always be there. Is anyone suprised by my TD???

It works both ways. Yes, if a dog genetically has an unsound temperament, any amount of training probably isn't going to help (although it depends on how temperamentally unsound the dog is - a shy dog, for example, can be brought round with work). On the other hand, if a dog who has a bombproof temperament isn't trained or socialised, it's going to be just as much of a nightmare as one with an unsound temperament. (just!). The two, good temperament, and training/socialising, do go hand in hand however.

I agree that genetics is the foundation, but you can't say that genetics are the beginning & the end. Feral dogs for example, if they would have started life in a loving home with proper training & socialization even if just to the family, would be total different dogs. You can't accurately say that they are all genetically skewed. With my breed, socialization to people, places & things other than the family is crucial. Coddled, spoiled, ankle biting monsters are created otherwise. In some instances genetics are so bad...that there is no hope...true, but I cannot deny the fact that environment does play a part as well as genetics. ETA- Oh & basing off the question in the link provided, my opinion is, NO dog no matter the size, genetics, or environment...would ever be trusted 100% around children without supervision. Even if a dog is genetically skewed in the head or completely sound....it is still just a dog. The well-being of my child comes before any animal.

Sure genetics play a role in behavior. However genetics is the one thing that cannot be changed. Behavior can be changed through training and socialization. A generically noise sensitive dog will will always be frightened the sounds of thunder but he can be trained and socialized to deal with the event properly. I've seen some really freaky dogs do some really amazing things because their owner took the time to do some training and socialization. So genetics isn't the whole equation. Environment also needs to be considered. Training and socialization is a part of the dog's environment. The environment can be changed.

Because I believe we can make a difference with a scewed dog with proper socializing and training.. I did that with a few dogs and it took a month but after that intial training they turned out to be great family pets.. What do you say about Michael Vicks dogs..They went to work as therapy dogs and into great family homes.. If you spend the time and really want to see a success and it's worth your time you CAN turn a dog around.. Just like a child is born into a really screwed up family..That does'nt mean that child is going to turn into a serial killer like their dad..!!! There are many cases of dogs coming from the worst environment where they only were taught 1 thing..The time spent showing the proper way to behave and be among people and other pets works.. ADD...I hate doing this and ending up at the bottom!!! Launi I think your wrong..you are basing your opinion on 1 dog..I think if you took a genetically sound dog and put it in an awful pretictament for a few years that you can really screw it's mind.I think to the point of no return..Dog abuse has effects on a stable dog and I have seen it..I sd working with a dog like that and working almost all day every day you can bring that animal around..I do believe that you most definitely have to know what you are doing as its not for the generation that has'nt a clue on training dogs.. I don't think Vick put out the money to buy great dogs..Whatever a pup was born to be and put money in his pocket was all he cared about..He was'nt smart enough to even know to buy quality dogs as any dog is in there to fight till the death,,win or lose.. I have worked with fearful dogs to where they are totally sound..I work with it daily till I get my results..I am not saying each and every one of them can change but I will say it is a small margin.. ADD...here I go at the bottom again Launi we are talking about dogs that we have'nt a clue of where they came from,what their genetics are..so how can you say that the dog was sound genetically..You say a 2yr old Lab..Do you have his AKC papres and know for a fact the dog was breed with all the right genes??? I am talking about working with a few dogs I have owned,bought as puppies and yes they all said AKC, I also work at shelters to train and I have'nt and neither does the staff know where these dogs came from,what their genectics are..I have had fosters that were unsound but turned around..Do I know for a fact they came from a genetically sound breed..Nope...Would the family give up a dog they paid good money for that was bred sound..I don't think so.. I think both can be taken from an unsound state..and made into wonderful pets.. A dog that is aggressive towards humans I am not talking about at all. Add..DEE that is what I was saying.does'nt matter one bit if it's AKC or not,if you don't train and socialize your gonna have a train wreck on your hands.. Dobiz...AMEN

Most problem dogs I come across in shelters are simply untrained and poorly socialized. Now if I came across more genetically unsound dogs my thoughts would be different, but at this time all I see are dogs that are products of lazy ignorant owners. To clarify, genetics do play a large part of it, but so does training. Also, when someones having a minor issue that can be solved with desensitizing or w/e, what would you rather? Put the POS down it's unsound or here this is what you can do to solve it or get a trainer they can help you? I'm not going to advocate a dogs death over something that can be fixed. Most dogs are pets not working.

Genetics are certainly the most important when *acquiring* a dog. However, very few people even know what to look at, or what to ask. Very few people have done any but the minimal research on the breed. Very few people realize the importance..and that is why BYBs and puppy mills thrive. Most people acquire a dog because of its appearance, or its reaction to their presence. I raise a very 'quirky' breed, that can be wonderful, or an airhead, or a monster. Very few prospective buyers give a rat's behind when I am trying to tell them what they need to know about my lineage, or about the dogs on their pedigree, or even about the differences within a litter.. MOST, only want to know that they are going to be large and flashy. I have had so many get angry when I refuse to sell them the big, strutting, flashy, dominant male, when they are better suited to the mellow fellow, who will be so much easier to live with.. That's why I have to screen so carefully, and 80% of prospects are eliminated..It even seems that it is getting harder and harder to find an intelligent and forward thinking person!. Look at that Presa in the afore-mentioned question. You KNOW that it was not a responsible or reputable breeder! No one with anything but dollar signs in their eyes, would have sold that loaded gun to such a person (with a child!). BUT..Now, he has already acquired a dog, as have most askers here. There is nothing they can do about the genetics of the dog they acquired, whether is was from a shelter, or from a breeder. They have the dog.. All that they can do, is make the best of it..Help the dog be all that it can be. So, now, their priorities ARE *Training and socialization*.

A lot of them are just parroting back what they have seen the more knowledgeable dog people say in situations where training and socilization was the issue. A lot of them are also parroting back what they have seen from the TV "trainers" where training and socialization are always the "cure" failing to realize the dogs that can't be "cured" are never shown on TV. Alison: breed has nothing to do with it. Genetic instability has nothing to do with breed. You can have a genetically unstable dog of any breed. You are completely incorrect genetics is the most important factor. You can put a genetically unstable dog in a home with the best most experienced owner and its still going to be genetically unstable, there is no fixing genetic instability. You can put a genetically stable dog in the worst home and yes you can create a "bad dog" but take that stable dog out of that environment and put in in a good home and the overwhelming majority of the time that dog can be "fixed"