Why does Canada and America have bad education?

What do you think of students who get educated in Canada but decide to work in America?

  • And take advantage of the subsidized education, paid mostly by taxpayers, to receive a world-class education only to go and contribute to America? I am an engineering/physics double major student, and most of my classmates plan to move to America after they get their degrees or phD's, because of the lowered taxes and higher salaries. Most of these students' education is heavily subsidized, and they pay off what little amount they owe in debt through scholarships, summer internships, and grants/bursaries. Do you think the government should step in, as this is a serious brain-drain problem? If a student wants to receive a subsidized education, should they be forced to work in Canada for a certain amount of years before being allowed to live abroad?

  • Answer:

    I think that it is unfair when a person benefits from financial support from the taxpayers' decides to leave the country without paying it forward to the community. But would forcing these people to work in Canada solve our lack of employees in some fields? No, it would not. You have to understand that things are so different from a province to another. I think that the best example is the health care situation affecting the province of Quebec. Quebec is believed to have one of the best, if not the best, health care program in the whole world. The truth is half of the population doesn't have a family physician and the average waiting time at the E.R. usually ranges between 20 and 36 hours in some regions. If you need a cast, you can except to have it only four days later. If you need an MRI, you will have it in 3 to 12 months. If you need a knee surgery, you'll be lucky if you have it within the next 4 years. They don't have enough doctors, let apart specialists, even though they "create" enough doctors. Why is that? They move to different provinces. But why do they move to other provinces? There are several reasons. They get better salaries—they earn from 50% to 100% more. They also pay less taxes. That also explains why the problem is worse in Gatineau-Hull, because it's right next to Ontario. And as much as I hate this situation, I understand these people. Is a 10-minute drive worth making an extra $100K per year? Hell yeah! And what pisses me the most is that Quebec is the province who "loses" more doctors, it's also the province where the studies are cheaper because the government, i.e. taxpayers' from Quebec, pays the biggest part. For instance, studies in Quebec cost only 25% of what they would cost in Ontario. In fact, the cost for studies in Quebec is approximately 4 times lower than in the other provinces. Therefore, people who study in Quebec benefit a lot more from financial support from the taxpayers', but they're the one who tend to leave the most (and sooner). Facing these two extreme realities, it's hard to see any fairness in that.

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I don't see what difference it makes. Sure they get their education here but it's paid for by their parents, and in some cases them, as much as anyone. Its a free country. Besides, we get just as many foreign educated persons coming to Canada. Just take a look at the list of medical specialists in your local hospital/medical arts building and you will see many of them are Canadian born and educated but many are also Canadian born but foreign educated or foreign educated and born as well. My Canadian cardiologist got his education in England. My kids pediatrician is from Malaysia and my wife's GP is American.

Randy

I agree with most of what the first two postings say. However, what irks me is that American medical people are allowed to enter Canada at the invitation of Canadian universities and speak to those students who will be graduating in a few weeks about jobs in the US. They also offer bonuses and other perks as incentives toward hiring. I suppose in a free society that's allowed, but the irk part is that the Canadian taxpayer subsidizes a portion of their Canadian degree, only to be scooped up by the Americans who have contributed nothing. University graduates from Canada, especially the medical professions, are highly regarded in the USA. Again, it's a matter of free choice, but somehow it doesn't sit right that taxpayers are getting the shaft. IMHO, a win/win solution needs to be enacted to compensate the taxpayer if a graduate immediately leaves the country because of a job offer.

Funny that we don't mind educated Canadians but won't take Mexican laborers. Guess we don't need to build a wall up north 'cause its ok for Canadians to take our jerbs! ;-) Joking aside, it's still worth it for your government to keep things as they are. Canada better supports its population for success with post-secondary education subsidies and its health care system, and the quality of life is really, really good. Most will stay, or leave temporarily and then come back. Plans change, you are all still young, and even of the ones who leave, many will come back, more experienced and ready to support the businesses there. Besides, you have well-educated foreigners moving there who are making the contributions to the economy that can offset the ones who do emigrate for work. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Lower taxes here don't make life less expensive for sure. Most of us just want to have a nice life with a good job close to family and friends. I'll bet you find many of your fellow students actually stay home.

myopinion

I think they have it good. I am an American nurse who had to leave the U.S. because my husband couldn't get a visa. So we decided to immigrate to Canada. Presently we are having a really rough time obtaining work here in Canada. Every time I turn around Canada is asking for another post secondary-something document that I don't have. I feel like here in Canada they value "the degree" and not experience. I have 8 years of ICU nursing experience in the U.S. and am unemployed in Canada. But on the contrary, Canadians nurses can come over as the please and will get hired easily and quickly. I guess I just don't see as fair.

Jane

Absolutely not...firstly what happens if you "force" people to stay here to work?Here's what happens-a job is only "worth" what someone is willing to do it for-if you create a glut in the Canadian job market in any field what happens?Simple supply and demand dynamics drive salaries down-as a consequence say,an aerospace designer/engineer working for Bombardier,instead of making 95-100k a year (arbitrary figure) they find themselves earning 65K a year because the supply of engineers vastly exceeds the positions available in Canada-then as a consequence of that university enrollment starts dropping off overall-or people interested in this field pursue other interests in advanced education further creating (the same)pressure in other sectors.What happens is (eventually)you end up with a bunch of over-qualified people stocking shelves at Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire.(this is already a problem is some places in Canada) Your assumption that university education is funded mostly by taxpayers isn't quite correct-right now (according to a recent study-see page 50 of attached PDF) government funding accounted for about 50 % of the revenue in Ontario universities and colleges in 2006/7-now consider that that 50% isn't simply to offset tuition or operating costs,much of that money is paid out as research grants through Industry Canada or provincial programs for things like bio- pharmaceuticals,petro-chemical and alternative energy research amongst others-it is not simply a hand-out or direct subsidy. Then there's always that "Freedom of Movement" bit(section 6) in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms -that states people are free to enter and leave the country as they so desire; 6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada. Any such law (or condition to pursue post-secondary education) to curtail that would be (appropriately) be deemed "Unconstitutional".

Leafer

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