The age old Israel debate?

Neither side is composed exclusively of saints; in that you are quite right. Both, in varying degrees, have behaved wrongly. I prefer to ask myself which of the alternatives is, on balance, preferable: 1...A western-style liberal democracy with racial and religious tolerance, a decent standard of living and respect for all colours/races and both sexes. A country which fights only defensively, even where this means (as in 1967) getting its retaliation in first. 2...A mediaeval fundamentalist oligarchy where women are ill-treated daily, children are bullied and brainwashed into being martyrs and there is neither religious nor ethnic toleration. A grouping dedicated to aggressive and murderous attacks, concentrating on the women and children of its opponents. My vote is for Israel. Not the ideal country, certainly, but as between them and the opposition it's no contest.

three random people post on this issue, you highlight them to say this 'Now a couple of quotes to show whats wrong with America' then go on to ask people not to post racist comments. lol edit: you're welcome..

When it comes to who owns what land on the planet Jews in Israel are at the highest level on the certainty scale.

Your question is so old and boring. Its so simple too. Without Israel you would be dead by now. Israel stops Iran attacking you. It stops Hamas from destroying the middle East. Wake up man.

Just when was the land stolen, and from whom? Was it stolen from Israel by the Babylonians, who were later kicked out? The Greeks likewise, the Egyptians (polytheistic Pharaohic Egypt), The Romans, The Mongols, the Christians, the Kurd Saladin, the christians again, the Turkish Mamluks, the Ottomans, the British? They have all visited Israel at one time or another and each time Israel has risen. Doesn't that tell you something? In 1919 the British, French and League of Nations created Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, Iraq, the Gulf States, etc.I notice that you are not questioning their right to exist. In 1923 the UK split League of Nations Mandate Palestine into Jordan (85%) and left Israel and the disputed territories (15%) in 1948. In 1948, Jordan took the disputed territories of Judea, Samaria and West Jerusalem. They didn't set up a 'Palestinian State', in the 1970s they actually fought a war to kick the terrorists of the PLO, PFLP, PLF etc out of Jordan - that is where 'Black September' comes from, not the Israelis! Egypt took Gaza, they did not set up a 'Palestinian' state either. In fact, the whole arab world cheered that religious freedom was limited in the arab controlled disputed territories to mohammedans alone. The Arab world, without exception, said that the 1948 borders meant nothing politically because eventually they would wipe Israel from the map and the lines were only 'temporary cease fire lines'. So, where exactly is this stolen land? What are its borders? Please answer that, just so we know that we are all talking about the same thing. You make much of the 6 day war being instigated by Israel. True, but the most biased arab historian will tell you that the Arabs were planning to attack 7 days later, Israel caught them in the hop. What about the arab attack on Yom Kippur? One of the holiest days in the Jewish Calender? Can you imagine Israel attacking when the mohammedans were at prayer, let alone on one of their holiest days? Just do some reading, do some research. Israels right to exist is beyond doubt, legally, morally and ethically. What is in question is the disputed territories of Judea and Samaria - Gaza is out of the equation because the Israelis left it to the PLO, who were subsequently massacred by Hamas. Perhaps we should ask India and Pakistan for their input, after all, they have experience of this with the disputed territory of Kashmir.

Erm, didn't USA white settlers "steal" someone's land???

There’s a patch of land. The last time it was independent was when it was the indep Biblical nation of Israel. It was conquered by the Romans (who then forcibly brought much of the population to Europe). After that, it was never independent again but conquered by one invading army after another. Some Jews never left. Some Arabs moved in. But, the land was mostly empty. The last occupying power as the UK. At that time, palestinian Jews called themselves palestinians. palestinian Arabs called themselves Arabs and tended to deny the validity of any so called palestinian entity. 80% of palestine was given independence by the British and renamed “Jordan.” During the 1940’s Arabs AND Jews immigrated. In fact, MORE Arabs immigrated into palestine than Jews. Heck, if you combine the fact that more Arabs immigrated into palestine in the 40’s and the UNRWAs guestimates of false registrants, the overwhelming majority of “palestinian refugees” either moved to palestine in the 1940’s or never lived there and never had any ancestors who lived there. The remaining 20% of palestine had both Jews and Arabs in it and both groups wanted independence and to be the group that controlled the govt. Given the fighting between the groups and particularly the (realistic) fear that the Arabs would ethnically cleanse the local Jews if the Arabs had sole control of the govt, the British turned it over to the UN who voted to partition the remaining 20% of palestine into 2 states with borders based on demographic majority. That sounds reasonable. Private property ownership was to be unaffected, just govt and border by majority of the local population. The exception was Jerusalem which was majority Jewish but was to be an international city. According to British and Ottoman/Turkish land records, palestinian Arabs owned about 5% of the land, palestinian Jews owned about 7% of it. Most of it was owned by the govt and leased out to renters. Jews accepted this. Arabs rejected it and promised genocide. And they tried. Arabs attacked in 1948 immediately and ethnically cleansed Jews from all land seized by Arabs in 1948. They seized Jewish private property. They destroyed all Jewish holy sites they could. (The only one they couldn’t was the Western Wall, which they used as a garbage pit instead.) Arabs banned Jews’ access to holy sites and made it a death penalty crime for Jews to own property in any of “palestine” and for an Arab to sell property to a Jew. Jews let Arabs live as citizens and own property in the land that ended up being Israel. About 20% of all citizens and elected MKs are Arab Israelis. Did ANY Arabs lose their property? Yes. And when they can prove they owned the property (rather than renting it) they can (and do) sue and get the property back or fair market compensation. Israel has paid a lot of compensation and/or returned a lot of property. Arabs (palestinian and otherwise) have done nothing about the Jewish property they seized. The Arabs demonstrated through their ethnic cleansing of their Jewish neighbors from Sfad in the 1800's, Hebron in 1929, and of the 80% of Palestine that became Jordan what would happen if Jews were left living in any area under Arab control. PS: ok. Only one in three Palestinians (34 percent) accepts two states for two peoples as the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Seventy-three percent agreed with a quote from the charter (and a hadith, or tradition ascribed to the prophet Muhammad) about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones and trees. That is "most"