Should I support his dream of being a poker player? It doesn't seem too smart?
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My partner and I have been together for 3 years and have discussed marriage. Due to the economy ,both of us lost our jobs this year. He started a new job about 6 weeks ago and I lost mine about a month ago. I have money saved up, he doesn't. When I met him, he had a thing with going out to the casino and playing poker. It even almost ruined our first date because he was late. Since then, he kind of stopped going because it was getting in the way of our relationship plus he wasn’t as financially secure to “gamble”. We had gotten into a fight back then because I wanted us to spend time together and I remember he yelled saying "That doesn't do anything for me!" It was a pretty bad fight. His idea was that he needed to make more money and going to the casino would do that, not making time for our relationship. Fast forward. Recently he has been paying poker online. He has always wanted to play more but holds back because of me. He's frustrated with his job and mentioned how his dream was to play professional poker. Sometimes I feel my boyfriend is unrealistic and wants a quick fix to things. He can be very impulsive and it worries me at times because I don’t feel safe with someone who makes hasty decisions. We went out over the weekend and as most normal females do, I was browsing stuff at some shops that I liked and expressed I wish I could have this or that but couldn't afford it. It was a random comment and my life doesn’t depend on having material stuff. I noticed he wasn't having fun and I realized why, but I didn't care about the money, I just wanted to spend time with him. It turned into a small argument that night because he popped out with the whole poker thing and was claiming I was holding him back. H e was saying he could give me so much more and he really has this idea that he can become rich off it. Either that or he’s just trying to convince me to let him play more. I just don't feel that gambling is a great way to make money! He tried to reason with me because I have made some investments and he said that it was the same thing because it's gambling and the only difference is that I'm putting my money in the hands of someone else. My argument was that I have actually made a return on it and that playing poker has a smaller return chance, that's why it's gambling. He has tons of poker magazines and watches poker on tv, etc all the time. I feel like I should support him, but I also feel that it's not very smart to do this and I feel pressured and like the evil dream killing witch if I don’t agree with him. Going back to school is hard because he works full time and also has to pay child support for his kid and now he's more stressed that I lost my job, even though I've been holding it down financially for now. He feels this is his golden ticket and that he has what it takes to make a lot of money. I think he's just going to gamble his money and our future away. What should I do?
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Answer:
They've pretty much covered it, good answers as usual. There are people who profit from poker consistently. There are many more people who lose consistently, and of those people, most of them probably think they are very close to being a winning player, and that they'll be able to pull it off on their next try (next deposit with their credit card). Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of knowing which of those categories your partner falls into, just from hearing him speak. You have to do what pdq said and track his online poker bankroll AND deposit history. Also, type his screen name at these sites: http://www.pokertableratings.com http://www.sharkscope.com Those sites will summarize his performance and update it every time he plays. If you see that he is winning, then let him continue winning (while continuing to monitor him). But if he's losing, cut it off. It's one thing to be a disciplined loser, because you can lose at very low stakes and get cheap practice. But if he's losing and NOT playing the minimum stakes, that means he's undisciplined, so the poker should stop, at least until you guys are more financially secure.
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Other answers
NO DON'T DO IT
PDQ is right, as usual. Poker is a skill game with a luck component. A lot of players think they are better than they are. Delusions of adequacy. They are not even close to being consistent winners. They just don't lose every time. They win a few, lose a few, cash here and there -- and, overall, lose or maybe break even. (A breakeven player is in the top 10% of all players.) A certain percentage of players think that if they had the time, they could really rake up. Most are wrong. The question is whether your boyfriend is actually any good. Do what PDQ said. If he is a winning player, he will have zero problem showing you how well he's been doing, including deposit history. If he is at all serious, he will have a poker tracker and that will show exactly how he's been doing in all areas of his play. If his charts at Poker table ratings, Sharkscope and Top Shark show a steady uphill climb, he may be as good as he thinks he is. There are people whose charts head right up from nothing to plenty at a nice 45% angle, with only a few spikes up or down. That is what consistency looks like. A chart that goes up ,then down a lot, then a big spike up one day, then down and down is not consistent. It's easy to see, just from the charts, if a person is a consistently winning player and, therefore, might have a shot if surviving as a professional poker player. Then it's a matter of having a sufficient bankroll to play with (to make the amount he needs to make), and sufficient savings beyond his poker bankroll (to live on when variance hits.) And great discipline. You have not provided a picture of a guy with good discipline, but he must have that. If his charts show he is, in fact, playing consistently well, challenge him to make a specific goal within the next 6 months. If he has $1000 at one site, challenge him to turn it into $10K in that time (or make an equivalent challenge based on his bankroll), by playing at consistent times at limits within his proper bankroll management range, like a second job. 4-5 hours a day, 5 days a week or some such schedule. He is not permitted to make any deposits. He must provide full disclosure to you at any time you want but no more often than weekly. You, in turn, will not bug him about playing during that period, even though it will cut into the time you spend together. And you promise not to freak out about the weeks where things don't go well. (That can happen.) See how that goes. No fudging on his side, no bugging on your side. If he sucessfully completes his challenge, which will show a combination of self-discipline and consistency, then all he needs to do is get enough money together -- from playing -- to support both his needed bankroll and his living expenses for at least 6 months. (I also prefer a year's worth.) And during that time, you will be able to decide whether you can truly support him (not financially) in this endeavor or whether it takes too much for you to do so. Because, if he is playing full-time, that would be his "job". To stay with him, you really need to be truly OK with this. Even if he is successful in the challenge, which should reassure you a bit about the viability of this poker thing, many people are not emotionally suited to living on that particular edge. You may be one.
PokerChic
So many things to say....where to start? OK, I'll start with the most irrelevant part, then work my way towards the important parts. You probably won't like Part #1. It's just one of my pet peeves after dating "Super-Libber" for a few months! I think what I have to say in Part #2 is worth reading. Part #1 - You have me quite confused as to the type of relationship you're in. Is this a guy, or are you two girls? You keep saying "he" and "him", but then you said, "We went out over the weekend and as most normal females do". Plus, you called this person your "partner" right off the bat. I don't care how old you are - from 19 to 91 - if this is a dude, DON'T call him your partner! He feels gay every time you say it. (I don't care what he says to YOU - he feels GAY every time you say it!!!) At any age, it's acceptable to call someone your "boyfriend". Like I said, even if your in your 90's. If this is a girl and you just like calling her "he" and "him", then fine. It's a little strange, but not as strange as calling a guy your "partner". Part #2 - If you can get past the first paragraph, then this is the stuff that's actually relevant to your question. The big question is this: Is he PROFITING regularly from his poker playing??? Don't let him give you any excuses here. He can't say something like, "I would be if you let me play more often." That's total BS. He's either a profitable player or he's not. Even if he IS a profitable player, this is not the sort of thing you can just say, "OK I'm gonna make my living from poker now." It just doesn't work that way. It's simply not that easy. If he actually knows how to play poker profitably, first of all make him prove it to you. He needs to allow you to see his bankroll, and he needs to allow you to see the "deposit" section of his on-line account. Again - no excuses. If he is making a steady profit, he'll have no problem showing you his full account. If he's got any excuses, then he is NOT a winning player. If he shows you that he is a winning player, here is what I would suggest you do for him. Allow him between 10 and 20 hours per week to play on-line. The bigger his bankroll gets, the more hours he can add. I would say no more than 30 hours per week, because he STILL must go to his "regular" job for quite a while. Rule of thumb for anyone turning pro is not to quit their regular job until he has accumulated SIX MONTHS worth of living expenses in the bank. If he quits his job any sooner than that, he lacks discipline and is asking for a catastrophe. (By the way - the worst thing a poker player can be is undisciplined. This is VERY important!) If he can build up 6 months worth of living expenses IN THE BANK due to his poker earnings, then he is ready to turn pro and quit his day job. One last point I'd like to stress just one more time: NO EXCUSES!!! Anything less than 6 months worth of living expenses....anything less than fully proving to you that he is a winning player NOW....anything less than full exposure to the whole truth.....anything less and not only should you say "no", but you should reconsider the relationship if he doesn't accept "no". (And I'm not talking about reconsidering what his title is!) ;)
pdq
Cheering for PDQ - he gets best Answer - BTW PDQ GREAT job on getting the top spot on gambling answers.....lol ok dear i will add my two cents althought pdq basically said it all if you have been with him for 3 years - he cant say your holding him back - if he REALLY was a supertalented player he would have done it by now! poker is a beatable game if your good enough - this is FACT - for a small population it isnt gambling - the problem is for 100 who try - 99 fail - its not as easy as it sounds! what they dont tell you - is almost no one can pull a tom dwan and start with 50.00 and work it up to millions - bankroll bankroll bankroll - it can never be stated enough - if he is broke to begin with - the odds are really against you - if he has a bankroll - if he is good enough all you need is time - but the 3 years of your relationship lets me believe he is chasing a dream and is too proud to admit he is not as good as he wishes. Sadly gambling appeals more to the broke and the hopeless than those who have their life and act together. Explain to him how you feel - this will be a hard road for you - because he probably wont change if the gambling bug has got him - you need to think long and hard how far you are prepared to go? and if your not prepared to deal with it - you might want to start looking in another direction Good Luck:)
Mrs. BonBon
Don't let him do it.
Anselm
Ok you can choose to support him but honestly I think you're living your own life for and through him. Let him choose and pursue his goals, and also handle his own consequences. You're not his mother, you're his girlfriend. Although you can be there to accept whichever his decision is and to support him by wishing him luck or trying to lend an ear when he talks poker or giving him time to practice and stuff like that, it doesn't mean you're going to wash yourself away, your OWN dreams (which you have not mentioned any of) for his. If he wants to be a pro poker player good for him, let him chase it. Now, back to you; what DO YOU want for your life? What are your goals? What are you working on right now? Let go a little and take care of yourself and that way it won't be as frustrating to be trying to hold in your hands something which you have no control over. He is an adult, you're not his babysitter. Being supportive and giving 200% of yourself foolishly are two different things.
Wallegra
The fact that he had no savings when you first met is an indication that he doesn't have the discipline to be a professional gambler. There has to be very strict limits as to how much of his paycheck he can gamble away, it might be wise to set up a prepaid visa card just for his past time and it is just his past time. If he has what it takes, that will be more than enough to get started. As to supporting, true support is not about financial support or coming in to do something in a crisis but it's about being available to listen so that they can develop the internal will to do what they know they must do. True support is about them having confidence in their decisions rather than dwell on indecision. You are in no way obligated to support him financially to start a gambling career nor should you be. That kind of financial support can and will destroy a relationship. You should not feel any guilt at all about not wanting to support him financially in a gambling career. You are not the evil dream killing witch. The fundamental difference between gambling and investment is that with investment there's a business model and the business model generates revenue, the investments are not the only source of money. With gambling, the only source of revenue is what's being put in it, so it's always a losing proposition in the long run.
John W
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