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Catholic Church in Spain, with Vatican backing, has condemned the parents who allow their kids to participate in Halloween due to it being "un-Christian" and the devil's work. What is your take?

  • Answer:

    I think that it is a good move. But really, the Catholic Church is trying to fix a problem that they helped to create, when you consider the history of Halloween. Consider this article, and note the third paragraph: "Halloween's origins date back about 2,000 years, to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain. The Celts lived in the cold parts of Northern Europe — in Britain, Ireland, and the north of France — and so for them, the new year began on November 1st, the end of the fall harvest and the beginning of winter. The night before the new year, on October 31st, the division between the world of the living and the world of the dead dissolved, and the dead could come to earth again. This was partly bad and partly good — these spirits would damage crops and cause sickness, but they also helped the Celtic priests, the druids, to tell the future, to make predictions about the coming year. The druids built huge bonfires, and regular people put out their own fires in their homes and crowded together around these fires, where they burned sacrifices for the gods, told each other's fortunes, and dressed in costumes — usually animal skins and heads. At the end of the celebration, they took a piece of the sacred bonfire and relit their own fires at home with this new flame, which was meant to help them stay warm through the long winter ahead. First the Romans co-opted Samhain and combined it with their festivals, and then the Christians co-opted both the Celtic and Roman celebrations. In the ninth century, the pope decided that these pagan festivals needed to be replaced with a Christian holiday, so he just moved the holiday called All Saints' Day from May 13 to November 1. All Saints' Day was a time for Christians to honor all the saints and martyrs of their religion. The term for All Saints' Day in Middle English was Alholowmesse, or All-hallowmass. This became All-hallows, and so the night before was referred to as All-hallows Eve, and finally, Halloween".

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Yet another reason to not be a Catholic.

Moongrim

Halloween is a pagan holiday so why would most religious people take part in it anyway? Because most don't know the history of it.

Jon...AKA...1000 horse dodge

The Catholic Church in Spain DID NOT declare it to be pagan or Satanic: they declared it to be secular, commercial, and American, and opposed it because it was replacing the traditional Catholic observance of all Saints Day (and Spain is about the only place where it was still being observed en-masse). Trick-or-Treating didn't begin until the 1930s when it was invented in the US by Methodist ministers and YMCA directors, offering an alternative to the increasingly vandalistic Mischief Night (which is what kids did on Halloween in the US and Britain before that - for centuries). Trick-or-Treating and the costumes that go with it didn't come to Britain until the 1960s or the rest of Europe until the 1980s - become yet another export of American pop culture to be hated by the native traditionalists. And the last is what is really at the root in notoriously traditional Spain: what they really object to is this American practice replacing a Spanish one. The French had similar reactions to breakfast cereal ("How dare they supplant the breakfast baguette!") and the Brits to Baseball in their parks. And the level of irrational antipathy and over-the-top rhetoric was even greater in those cases. As for the supposed pagan origins of Halloween ... Halloween is old English for All Saints' (Day) Eve. To do the claims of supposed pagan origins justice, we first we have to make distinction between the secular and the religious aspects of the holiday. We also need to find a more useful term than "pagan". Pagan originally was just a word of disdain for country-folk - it basically meant ignorant superstitious bumpkin. Thus it's wrong to describe the likes of Plotinus or Cicero as "pagans". For theological and anthropological purposes, we need to differentiate idolatrous polytheism and shamanism from folk superstitions, and folk supestitions from mere folk customs and practices; e.g., there is nothing inherently idolatrous, shamanistic, superstitious, or even religious about throwing a big party when you get your crops in. Farmers do this regardless of their religion and superstition, or lack of them. Neither is there anything inherently religious or superstitious in country-folk building big bonfires when the nights start getting long, the weather cold, and wood dry: this is just something that human beings do. Yet to hear many neopagans talk, sex and eating are "pagan" (since pagans did them before Christianity existed) and the Church stole these from them in its bid to take over. As "pagan" isn't very descriptive, we need to look at things in terms of idolatry/fetishism, polytheism, and shamanism which are religious, and mere folk superstition (e.g., fears about ghosts and tricks for avoiding them) which are common to all cultures and religions, even monotheistic and secular ones. Moving on ... Religiously, all Saints Day is a day for visiting tombs of those who in death are believed to have attained the Beatific Vision (i.e., they're in Heaven, not Hell, Limbo, or Purgatory). Flowers were placed on their graves and their relics venerated. (Protestants have always denounced this as "pagan!" but unfortunately they don't know just how antithetical this was to pre-Christian beliefs and practices in Europe, the Near East, and North Africa.) The following day was "All Souls Day" when people said prayers and sang masses for the relief of souls in Purgatory, that they might be delivered to Heaven early. In Britain, France, and parts of Spain (starting around 1400) the poor would go begging house to house on the Nov 1 (not Oct 31) asking for handouts and offering to pray for the souls of their benefactors' loved-ones in Purgatory on the following day (All Souls Day). All Saints Day originated in the Eastern (Greek) churches in the 2nd or 3rd centuries. It was (and still is) celebrated on the first Sunday after Pentecost, 56 days after Pascha (the Feast of the Resurrection), and so bounces around each year between mid-May and late-June. It should be noted that practice of visiting graves, placing flowers on them, and venerating relics were all not only NOT "pagan", they were held to be absolutely obscene and defiling by Hellenists (Greco-Roman traditional idolatrous polytheists) of that time and place. Indeed, one of the reasons Rome persecuted the early Christians was because of their flagrant violation of Hellenistic taboos concerning association with the dead, violations which left them "unclean" and detestable to the gods, who withdrew in disgust taking their blessings with them, leaving Rome open to famine, plague, flood, fire, military defeat, earthquakes, and all manner of public calamaties. This practice of the Christians was repeatedly mocked, condemned, and villified by Hellenists who were forever warning of the doom that their obscene and destable rituals would bring upon the Empire. All Saints Day wasn't adopted into the Latin Liturgy until 609 AD. Its celebration in the West was first fixed on May 13, where it remained until moved to Nov 1 by Gregory III in the 730s. Many have seen something in that May 13 was also the last day of the old Roman Festival of the Lemures - the problem with that theory is that the Festival of the Lemures hadn't been observed (at least as such) in 200 years: it was an old and specifically Roman tradition; the last vestiges of the old Roman pagan rites had died out in the 500s, and the whole of Italy had since been overrun and resettled by Germanic Tribes (first the Goths and and then the Lombards), not to mention the influx of Greeks, Syrians, and Egyptians, et al. during the Byzantine Exarchate. Also, the Festival of the Lemures was a rite of exorcism, in which people avoided graveyards and tombs, and exorcized the malevolent and vengeful ghosts from their homes, leaving offerings of beans at the gate so the foul things didn't come back. Thus there is no definitive evidence to support the claim of a connection. The fact is the May 13 date just happened to be the first Sunday after Pentecost in 609, and that date became fixed rather than following the Eastern liturgy based on the fluctuating date of Pascha. In the 730s Gregory III moved the feast to Nov 1, nobody knows why. Claims that it was related to Samhain seem to be baseless speculation. Samhain was evidently only a harvest festival in this time, and only celebrated in the Gaelic lands of Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and Brittany, which were all quite Christian by this time. Moreover, the Nov 1 observance of All Saints only took hold in Italy initially, and then slowly moved into the rest of the Continent under the Carolingians, starting in the 800s. The Celtic churches continued to follow the Eastern Rite (observing All Saints' on the 1st Sunday after Pentecost) for centuries, and then finally fixed it on April 20th, where it remained until the 1600s. As there is no discernible connection here, modern Historians currently reject the claimed Samhain connection for the change of date as baseless speculation. All Souls' Day was improvised by Odilo of Cluny in 998, and graddually spread throughout Western Christendom. In historic times, Samhain was a Gaelic harvest festival. All that is known of it dates from the Middle Ages or later when the Irish were all Christians. All records of the Irish observance of it show no definitive polytheistic, anamistic, shamanistic or idolatrous vestiges of their pre-Christian past; neither does it show anything related to either the Christian Feast of All Saints (which was celebrated in Ireland on April 20 until modern times), nor anything related to the typical traditional American celbration of Halloween, nor anything related to any of the various Day of the Dead festivals around the world: apart from being just a typical harvest festival (an Irish Oktoberfest) Irish Samhain consisted primarily of building giant bonfires and lantern processions. The closest thing to Halloween is that they would carve faces in giant turnips and occassionaly put candles in them. Neither of these customs has been traced conclusively to pre-Christian times. It has been speculated also that Samhain had some Day of the Dead aspects to it, but there is no actual evidence for this. The closest one comes is in its observance in Wales where typical folk superstitions concerning ghosts were at their peak on the night Oct 31 (e.g., crossroads, graveyards, borders, and churches were to be avoided as this was where ghosts would gather; also, each person was to place a stone with his name on it around a bonfire - in the morning, anyone whose stone was missing would die in the coming year.) There are some ancient myths that would seem to suggest that Oct 31 was a night when ghosts, hags, and evil spirits were most active and dangerous, but in their Medieval tellings (which is all we have) they had become nothing more than stories to entertain/thrill children whil lampooning such beliefs for adults. It is entirely possible that the increased fear of ghosts on that night, however, dates from Christian times, and is due to nothing more than the conjunction of typical folk superstitiousness with the the date and subject of All Saints' Day itself. As for Jack-o-lanterns: they were invented by the Puritans of New England, but may have been inspired by the Gaelic raddishes. As for Trick-or-Treat: ritualized begging in outlandish and flamboyant costumes (e.g. Wasailing) was a common part of major feasts throughout the British Isles, France, and Italy in the High Middle Ages, including All Saints' Day, and it acquired a special purpose on Nov 1 in relation to All Souls Day. Starting in the 15th Century and down through the 18th, youths on the Isle of Man would beg for chump change on Oct 31, and bang on the doors, walls, and windows with radish stumps until the inhabitants ponied up. The problem is, these traditions in relation to All Saints Day had mostly dissappeared by 1850, and never made the jump across the Atlantic. Throughout the 18th, 19th and early 20th century, no kids went Trick-or-Treating in the US (or Ireland, Scotland, or England) - kids went out on Mischief Night, the best prank being to turn over an out-house with the man-of-the-house in it! As noted previously, it is a documented fact that the current practice of Trick-or-Treat began in the United States in the 1930s, promoted by Methodist ministers and YMCA directors, who pushed it as a wholesome and safe alternative to the increasingly vandalistic Mischief Night. From there it spread to Britain in the 1960s, and the rest of Europe in the 1980s. Thus, historically and theologically, there is no connection between Halloween and Samhain, despite what pop-history says -- that's a myth that developed from 1880-1960 among "pagan revivalists" and was later eagerly latched onto by certain types of Fundamentalists.

Razzle-Fratchit

Then they really shouldn't have tried to co-opt that Pagan holiday in the past. This is just their own choices coming back to 'haunt' them.

LarryH54

halloween , or "samhain" as it's really called has nothing to do with satan ! .remember, satan is a christian deitiy . . he is one of " their " boys .. and has nothing to do with samian ! WE don't even beleive he exists ! samhain actually is gaelic for "summers end " .. and happens when the moon reaches 15% scorpio. it's true date is usually early november . it is actually the pagan new year , and a large pagan holiday to ring in the new year , say goodbye to summer and welcome winter . early christians tried to join in on the celebrations , dressing up as dead saints .. hence the blood in costumes , all saints / souls day ,, and devils night and devil costumes .. when this did not work . a bishop actually took the copied pagan holiday and changed it to the same night as the pagans to over shadow it and discredit it ... the only devil in halloween is the one christians brought into it ! and put into it .!!! you were lied to ! as part of an ongoing christian smear campaign to discredit witchcraft , wiccans , and pagans ....... wake up and smell the clergy ;-)

The Anonymous Witch

A silly exaggeration. If the Catholic Church is so concerned about the welfare of kids, they should first concentrate and put all their effort into eradicating all those pedophile Priests that have been caught, accused and sanctioned for molesting children. Then they may, if they want, get into attacking an "Un-Christian" celebration that includes having kids disguised as Garfield the Cat, Popeye the Sailor, Cinderella, The Little Mermaid, etc, and also your local corrupted politicians...

Starmaster

As long as they just told them not to, hey free speech. But if they were to gather up a mob and stone them to death, then it might be something to worry about.

Temporary Name

The RC hierarchy has totally lost touch with the world. +5

Anonymous

That is a bit of an exageration. Halloween is actually like Christmas Eve. The night before a Christian holy day. It is the eve of All Saint's Day or All Hallows Eve or Halloween. Just like "hallowed be Thy name." But just like Mardi Gras (Fat Tuesday, the day before Ash Wednesday), in England and the U.S., Halloween has taken on a life of its own. People from outside of England and the U.S. may see some of our popular customs as a bit Pagan. Christians including Catholics do not fear death, evil, or Satan. In Christ, we can laugh in the face of death. From an email I received: Being a Christian is like being a pumpkin. God lifts you up, takes you in, and washes all the dirt off of you. He opens you up, touches you deep inside, and scoops out all the yucky stuff--including the seeds of doubt, hate, greed, etc. Then He carves you a new smiling face and puts His light inside you to shine for all the world to see. Many countries have many different customs concerning the celebration of All Saints Day. The Catholic Bishops of Spain are concerned about the Spanish people adopting Pagan-looking English and U.S. customs and forgetting thier own. With love in Christ.

ImaCatholic2

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