What are examples of demographic?

What are some examples of things that cannot be explained by logic?

  • In this very interesting blog post, http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201407#01 a point is made about how "smart" people, particularly "smart" computer people, have a tendency to rationalize the world. They believe that the correct answer can always be derived from logic. There has to be a rational explanation to everything. This makes sense given that a programmer's job is to breakdown complex problems into solutions derived from basic logic. The same can be said for any type of scientist, who also spend their days trying to find answers. Not to say that I am part of the world's "smart" people, but I do have a tendency to rationalize EVERYTHING. My attack is always measured. I analyze every result, devising a logical reasoning that MUST exist behind it. It's just my nature. If I don't see it, that doesn't mean it's not there, it just means that I don't see it. It's always felt like there is a logical explanation for everything. Everything must have an answer. So this idea really intrigues me and I have a feeling it is more true than not. My question is, what are some examples of this? Examples of things that simply cannot be explained by logic no matter how far you abstract the problem? ------------------------ Further explanation: I may have made some poor vocabulary choices here in my explanation. I'm sorry about that! Not that anyone didn't understand what I was asking, so far every answer has answered the question exactly and/or has been an insightful argument against the entire premise. All have been great. By, "real world," in the question, I didn't just mean physical objects. I was referring to any concrete examples. However, I see how confusing that can be so I'm going to edit the question removing, "real world," hopefully that will be clearer. Thanks, for pointing that out! I also used, "rationalization," to mean basically an explanation of why and how. I used "rationalization" because it was the authors choice of word, however perhaps "reasoning" might have been a more appropriate word. I've also decided to include here an excerpt from the blog linked above. The excerpt below essentially explains what led to the question, which I really can only imagine will further clarify what I'm trying to put into my own words. Smart people have a problem, especially (although not only) when you put them in large groups. That problem is an ability to convincingly rationalize nearly anything. ... Smart people, computer types anyway, tend to come down on the side of people who don't like emotions. Programmers, who do logic for a living. Here's the problem. Logic is a pretty powerful tool, but it only works if you give it good input. As the famous computer science maxim says, "garbage in, garbage out." If you know all the constraints and weights - with perfect precision - then you can use logic to find the perfect answer. But when you don't, which is always, there's a pretty good chance your logic will lead you very, very far astray. Most people find this out pretty early on in life, because their logic is imperfect and fails them often. But really, really smart computer geek types may not ever find it out. They start off living in a bubble, they isolate themselves because socializing is unpleasant, and, if they get a good job straight out of school, they may never need to leave that bubble. To such people, it may appear that logic actually works, and that they are themselves logical creatures. I guess I was lucky. I accidentally co-founded what turned into a pretty successful startup while still in school. Since I was co-running a company, I found out pretty fast that I was wrong about things and that the world didn't work as expected most of the time. This was a pretty unpleasant discovery, but I'm very glad I found it out earlier in life instead of later, because I might have wasted even more time otherwise. Just to possibly put another way, I feel as if I'm guilty of what the author of the post is claiming that many people are. I often think of everything as rational things. Things that "work in accordance to logic and reason." I approach things in life with this assumption and I analyze them as such, and am always attempting to create some type of explanation of things accordingly. I am definitely not saying I'm right by this, actually the contrary. I'm basically looking for examples of where this flaw surfaces. What are some examples of things not being rational in life? Things that don't act in a reasonable way?

  • Answer:

    The Burmese bandit from The Dark Knight! http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000288/: Criminals aren't complicated, Alfred. Just have to figure out what he's after. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000323/: With respect Master Wayne, perhaps this is a man that *you* don't fully understand, either. A long time ago, I was in Burma. My friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the loyalty of tribal leaders by bribing them with precious stones. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Rangoon by a bandit. So, we went looking for the stones. But in six months, we never met anybody who traded with him. One day, I saw a child playing with a ruby the size of a tangerine. The bandit had been throwing them away. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000288/: So why steal them? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000323/: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. Source: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0000204/quotes

Hardik Agrawal at Quora Visit the source

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Actually, logic by itself explains very little. You need a set of premises to draw any conclusion, and logic will never tell you if these premises are correct or not. At most it will tell you they are contradictory. Rationalising is a different story. It's mostly an act of arrogance, but it's not logic's fault. The word itself has different meanings (think rationalising resources), but in the sense you use it seems to refer to: "attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate" (From the Mac OS X dictionary). The arrogance here comes from the belief that one can know the "premises" that drive oneself or other's behavior. There is an expression from people who do computer models that is "garbage in, garbage out". If one's assumptions about other people/situations are inaccurate, the conclusions will be inaccurate, no matter how good your logic is. So logic almost (with permission from Gödel's incompleteness theorem) never fails. What fails are our hypotheses about the world, and in most real life situations the amount of parameters is huge, and some of them are impossible to know. But thinking that the we can explain anything that happens, that everything follows an order that is within our grasp, make us feel safe, so no wonder many people feel compelled to do it.

Marc Serra

Everything yields to logic through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductionism. The problem with this is, the resulting models end up explaining exactly what they set out to explain and so risk being examples of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question. One part of making peace with the idea that everything must have an answer: realizing that our definitions of nature, and of science, are bounded by perception. If we can't perceive it - if it is impossible ever to perceive it, whether directly or indirectly - we can't apply science to it. But correspondingly (we reason, fallaciously), if we can't perceive it - if it is impossible ever to perceive it, whether directly or indirectly - it is literally of no consequence. The gray area that we wring our wrists over is populated by phenomena to which we ascribe indirect causes that are beyond our current (and perhaps ultimate) perceptual limits. I suspect consciousness is still in the realm of things that defy logic. The best (ish) that we can do is call it an emergent property of a complex system, and then play at writing computer programs to ape what we observe about it.

Christopher Burke

The continuum hypothesis. Cantor went nuts trying to rationalize it. Then Godel came along and proved that it was impossible.

William Oliver

Even fully mathematical problems can be undecidable. Here is a list of proven undecidable problems in formal language theory. http://www.cs.wcupa.edu/rkline/fcs/grammar-undecidable.html. One of my favorites is the complement of a context free language is not even recursive (decidable by Turing Machines). For more undecidable problems in other fields of mathematics http://arxiv.org/abs/1204.0299

Yuhan Hao

Following two things (arguably) cannot be explained by logic. Randomness cannot be explained by logic. (by definition). Illogic cannot be explained by logic: In general as soon as one chooses a "logic" i.e. a system of propagating truth and falsehoods, one ends up choosing "illogic" as well. e.g. "Socrates is a man, all men are mortal therefore Socrates is immortal" is illogical in the sense of classical logic. (In turn, Classical logics can be said to have roots in our perception of the world and can be said to be an extension of set theory (labeling sets as True/False etc)). The trouble is, humans (arguably) cannot rationalize about the world much beyond set-theory (why ? because thinking about the world in that way appears to solve most our problems. Why? See * below) ) That's why one can argue -- logics that we create are worthy of being called "logics" only if they satisfy certain basic set-theoretic principles. One can try to be creative about the meaning of logic, but one cannot go far beyond set theoretic ideas for that to be called "logic". If so, illogical statements exist, and those cannot be explained by "logic". Note that if we could construct "illogical" statements using the rules of "set-theory-based-logic", then we would see at least 1 statement that is both logical AND illogical, which is not allowed in our systems of set-theory-based-logics. Thus, we cannot construct illogical statements from rules of logic (See arguments against http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialetheism) The real question is : can these above two concepts be applied to things we see in the real world ? to which i don't think there is a consensus yet. Randomness: I do not know if randomness truly exists in the real world. I have seen arguments that it does (http://arxiv.org/pdf/0911.3427v3.pdf), but i am not really convinced because maybe i do not understand the field deeply enough. Illogic: As the to existence of illogical things in the real world, we do not know about that either except only in this sense : We all can definitely imagine illogical statements in our heads. The fact that we imagine something means that things in the real world joined forces for our brain to experience that feeling. Thus, there should be something ingrained in natural laws that made us imagine/think illogical things. We already know that logical things cannot construct illogical things. Thus, based on Penrose's argument for "Godelism" (http://math.stanford.edu/~feferman/papers/penrose.pdf), i reason that illogic (in general imagination) must have a physical basis, something inherent in physical nature that allows our brain to explore that dimension. Thus at least a bit of illogic must exist in the real world. Further, in the real world, if we see something defying belief, e.g. wave-particle duality, we just accept that as a premise, but we don't alter our system of logic . We  try to create "extensions" though e.g. Fuzzy logics, temporal logics etc. *One potential reason reality can be explained using the tools of mathematics and set-theory-based-logic is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothesis where the argument is that our universe is so easily analyzable with the tools of math and logic, becuase, (quote): "Only Godel-complete (fully decidable) mathematical structures have physical existence".  My extension to this is:  reality may be more complex, e.g. it may have elements of randomness and illogic sprinkled in it - but mostly fully decidable mathematical structures which has been the reason for our success story in understanding the universe using the tools of set-theory-based logic.

Kanishka Joshi

Out of series of events when the probability of occurrence of an event is really low then we call it a random event. We don't have the tool or the technology to measure the occurrence of that event. For example. uncertainty principle foundation relies on the way we see things that is "reflection of light". Now if we have a way to measure the position of the electron other than by using "light photon" then there will be no uncertainty hence no randomness. I think it's totally logical.

Prateek Shukla

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