Is Barcelona the expensive city?

How do teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich play in less 'competitive' leagues but still compete with or sometimes even dominate the top teams of the world's most competitive league (England's Premier League) like Man City/United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool?

  • Central thought behind the question is, in general, irrespective of the quality players a team has, the level of competitiveness in a league does not seem to be a factor for teams to win matches against teams from other leagues. With the rise of more tactical managers in EPL like Tony Pulis, Mark Hughes, Pochettino etc., we got results like Stoke 3-2 Chelsea, Palace 1-0 Chelsea, Cardiff City 3-2 Man City, Man Utd 1-2 West Brom, Stoke 1-0 Arsenal, Hull City 3-1 Liverpool this season. Moreover, results like these could be attributed to the PL's physical style of play (with an aim to win more duels). Hence it looks like the EPL is, by far the most competitive league amongst others. However, the so called smaller teams in La Liga or Bundesliga mostly tend to be submissive against the top teams. So, how are Barcelona or Bayern, for example, able to maintain their standards against the EPL teams? Don't they get progressively weaker by playing against less competent opponents in their leagues, given the frequency of changing their tactics is less and on the contrary EPL teams should have become more adaptable to counter different style of plays?

  • Answer:

    Teams like Barca and Real arrange their own deals which is what causes such dominance in their leagues. The Premier League is the strongest league in the world because it gets the biggest licensing deals. It get's those because it is the strongest league  in the world.  Then it spreads the money throughout the league so there is not a concentration of money at the top and this way it can continue to be the strongest league in the world. Barca and Real buy players for +£50million and Premier League teams buy players for -£50million. The records for the biggest transfer sums are most often broken by those Spanish teams. Here is a list to the top 10 most expensive players of all time: 10 - Zidane       Juventus to Real           = £46 million (Set World Record) 9  - Torres      Liverpool to Chelsea       = £50 million  (Doh!) 8  - Falcao       Atletico to Monaco         = £51 million 7  - Cavani          Napoli to PSG               = £55 million 6 -  Kaka          AC Milan to Real          = £56 million (Set World Record) 5 - Ibrahimovic  Inter to Barca         = £59 million 4 - Neymar         Santos to Barca         = £71 million 3 - Luis Suarez Liverpool to Barca   = £75 million 2 - C.Ronaldo   United to Real             = £80 million (Set World Record) 1 - Bale              Spurs to Real                = £85 million (Set World Record) So you can see that the top Spanish teams spend huge amounts on the very best individuals in the world. As for Bayern. Well Chelsea beat them to win the Champions League recently. Manchester Utd beat them to win it before too. Then of course there was the season not too long ago where Chelsea lost to United on penalties in the final..  So Chelsea and Man Utd stand their ground at least.  That Man City struggle in Europe but do so well in the Premier League is something of an anomaly for a team whose spending has far exceeded any other Premier League team in the relatively short period in history since the club came into money. When it comes to Arsenal, they spent a long time spending very little money and selling a lot so the team never really received the kind of investment any of the really top teams have. Then Liverpool spent a long time, in their terms, without Champions League football after Man City got the huge investment. That meant Liverpool had to really go through a transition and rebuild with very shrewd investments from Brendan Rodgers.  So, in their regard, it's not really fair to say that the other teams dominate a team which hasn't been competing with them for years. What I can say for Bayern is that the Bundesliga benefits from having the 50+1 rule in which all clubs require the fans to be the majority share holders. This means they won't have any billionaire owners. Within the 50+1 rule there is also an exception for private companies who have a 20+ year relationship with a club and there are stricter rules surrounding the mandatory youth academies for every club. This means Germany are constantly churning out top players as there is far more opportunity and support for the youth. With the clubs being majority owned by the fans, it keeps the ticket prices low so basically every game is sold out. As Bayern have the Allianz arena with a 71,000 capacity it earns £2.5 million on ticket sales for every home game. To build that stadium they were able to sell 8% of their shares to Adidas. Audi and Allianz also own 8% shares which were deals worth around £90 million. So Bayern have plenty of revenue coming in and have plenty of stars coming out of the youth academy. Its no wonder why they are so strong in this World Cup even with all the injuries going into it. I disagree with the statement that those clubs dominate the English teams. I think they are all as good as each other. The Spanish teams are strong because they spend big on the big individuals. English  teams are strong because they have good revenue from the Premier League and the spread means the competition is consistently challenging throughout the season. The Germans benefit because they have rules in place which means they can gain consistent match day revenue from full stadiums and they have a great youth development structure, also not forgetting that Bayern received relatively large cash injections with investment from Adidas, Audi and Allianz.  The reason there is still continued dominance in each of those leagues is because they all get extra revenue from Champions League football every year which the rest of the teams in each league don't benefit from. That consistent revenue from European competition helps them to all be as competitive as each other in Europe. As much as I disagree with the idea there is currently dominance, I do fear for the strength of the Premier League teams in the future as English players are being pushed out of the game because of the pressure for instant success and continued dominance so as to keep up in Europe. If it continues then people will lose interest in the the league as the breed of the English footballer declines. Outgoings like Cole and Lampard for Chelsea with no English replacements and signings like Alexis Sanchez for Arsenal surely won't help the likes of Walcott and Oxlaide-Chamberlain. As much as people love to see world class players, they still want to see English ones too and if the decline continues then so will the supporters revenue and viewing figures. I don't think the Premier League will maintain its status as the strongest league if that happens as it will mean the competitive strength of the teams will also decrease with lower fees. It is the one system of the 3 leagues mentioned which needs to make big changes to secure its status for the future.

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I would attribute this to a Premier League bias. Remember, the EPL has only been the richest league of late, with all the TV deals. While there is no doubt that the league is competitive, you seriously underestimate the strength of the teams in La Liga and the Bundesliga. It's just that they aren't marketed as well. Also, another factor here is that Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich have some factors on their side A storied history - unlike Chelsea and Manchester City Being absolutely at the peak in their countries gives them the advantage in monetary matters. A lion's share of the talent pool in countries which develop players more suited for the system (and more talented players as well) Better-established youth systems which allow young players to develop in a Let me speak about Barcelona, for example. What are the routes to the club? Enthusiastic talented kids join the popular club in their area. E.g. Xavi A youth prospect at a small club like Albacete is picked up early on by Barca ~the age of 10-12 (good scouting systems). e.g. Iniesta, Messi He then plays for the Barcelona youth teams - (Alevin, Juvenil B, Juvenil A). At each step, players join in. They have the excellent facilities of La Masia at their disposal - this offers them a good education as well. People join in all the time - till the ages of 16-18. e.g. 18 year old Alen Halilovic, who will play for Barca B next year Upto this step, all of their cantera players are all trained to play technical football. They don't hoof the ball to a tall target man. These teams (Barca B, Real Madrid Castilla, Bayern Munich II) play in a lower league in the same league system where they are not expected to win every match. Their team's fortunes do not depend on promotion or relegation. This way, they get the experience of playing competitive matches early on. Also, their opponents are more committed to playing attacking football - like a large fraction of teams in Spain and Germany do. In England, many of these young players play in a youth system which is isolated from the league pyramid, or play in lower league clubs who play hoofball [aptly describes your average Championship match] After this point, the revenue from the TV deals and constant Champions League football kicks in. Barcelona can afford to spend a lot of money to buy the best players to reinforce this squad. The history means that they already have the fan base and these marquee signings will only enhance the popularity of the club. (In case of Bayern, their sponsorship deals help) This enormous revenue ensures that they can splurge millions for the best players on the planet - constantly. A player who is offered the same amount of money by Barcelona or Manchester City will prefer to go to Barcelona because they have the history to back up the finances. You can't throw money at a bunch of players and hope that they'll click together. Madrid did this with the Galacticos, but they no longer do it. Bayern and Barca haven't done it that often. Chelsea and Manchester City, though, have literally flushed money down the toilet trying to buy the best players who are not coveted by Bayern/ Madrid/ Barca. They're spending large sums of money trying to buy second-tier players [who are talented, but not Ronaldos and Neymars]. The point is that the best players will naturally want to leave for the clubs with the most history (assuming they have good teams). Case in point: Ronaldo, Bale, who both left the EPL for Real Madrid. Or Neymar, who ruled out the EPL teams while moving to Europe. They are the crème de la crème in world football, and they don't care whether they're playing Stoke or Osasuna in the league. They care about trophies, and Barca/Madrid/ Bayern offer them a better chance at this. How do they stay competitive? Barca/Madrid/Bayern are expected to win every single match. Every single one. Even a draw is just not an option for them. And they have to win big. 1-0 wins against the likes of Osasuna and Rayo Vallecano is also not very acceptable. This calls for attractive football. And these are teams who play good football. Atletico Madrid, Athletic Bilbao, Sevilla, Valencia, Real Sociedad - they're all good teams who can definitely give the better teams in England a run for their money. Notably - Athletic Bilbao beating Manchester United 5-3 in 2011/12, in a season when Man Utd lost the EPL on goal difference. Or Atletico Madrid beating Chelsea en route to the CL final in 2013/14. They're that good. And there's Champions League football. It becomes unacceptable to get knocked off before the semifinals. This has cost the jobs of quite a few Real Madrid managers (and Tata Martino as well). Essentially, they're supposed to make deep runs into the Champions League and win the league. Both are non-negotiable. In the year Chelsea won the Champions League, they finished 6th in the league. Di Matteo was given a 2-year contract. To contrast, Jupp Heynckes won the Champions League in 1998 with Real Madrid but was sacked at the end of the season because they finished fourth. These unreasonably high demands, supported by huge budgets, huge fan bases, the best players and managers, and a demand for attacking football, causes these teams to be better than all the EPL teams.

Abhishek Padmanabhan

English premier league will always be competitive unlike Spanish or German league. The Premier League is the most-watched football league in the world, broadcast in 212 territories to 643 million homes and a potential TV audience of 4.7 billion people. I will generally do comparison between English and Spanish league. Some of the reasons are - Equal distribution of TV revenues unlike Spanish League - Above picture shows that how unequal is the distribution of TV money between the club in both the league. In Spain, Real and Barcelona dominate the amount which is more than twice of English League champions. More money so you can get more players. And other teams in Spain face difficulty in paying their debt and wages of players. So they can't compete against the big force. They have to sell their good players to balance their book. Fernando Torres is record British transfer,£50 million. And team like Barcelona or Real signed player like Bale, Ronaldo, Zlatan, Suarez, Neymar, Figo, Kaka, Zidane, James etc which is much higher than what English team generally pay. Premier league was not that much competitive we think - 1972-90 was Liverpool era. They won 11 league titles during those years. They were dominating that time. Some team was able to surprise them to win title but not regularly. 1990-2000 was Machester United era. They won 7 titles during that time. Then comes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League#.22Big_Four.22_dominance_.282000s.29. Arsenal under Arsene was doing great job. Then Roman bought Chelsea and was spending to make it competitive. Liverpool was desperate to win title after 1990's. Today teams like Tottenham, Everton, Machester City was adding competitiveness in the league. Other Spanish team is better than most English team- Team like Athletico Bilbao, Valencia, Sevilla is lot better than team like Tottenham, Everton, Southampton was. But they could not able to hold their best player if big team comes calling for their prize asset. They spend that money on youth academy, or on debt unlike English team.(Tottenham last season, or Liverpool this season) Spending Power -  Today in premier league 6 or 7 teams have spending power. They can spend at least 40 million euro to make their squad as competitive as they can. They want to book their place in top 4 so getting Champions League spot and also huge amount of money by UEFA. Last year Tottenham spend over 100 million euro on new recruiting. They got most of the money from Bale sale. Liverpool this year spending too much so they can win this year League. Machester United miss last season Champions League spot. To become no 1 they have spent huge. Manchester City and Chelsea always spent big. Spanish club except Barcelona and Real Madrid now somewhat Atletico are not capable of spending even 10 to 15 million. Attracting player from all over the world - Premier League is most attractive league due to competitiveness and also for marketing. Player who did well here either wish to get transfer to Madrid or Barcelona after some good year or get money through advertisement. If they get transfer to either Barcelona or Real Madrid, their chances of representing their country increases subsequently. Look how player like Bale, Suarez, Ronaldo, Robben, Modric, Owen, Beckham, Henry etc forced their move to this two club. Youth player do not get much chance - Playing youth in a team is like taking a risk. It may cost you title. Team in Spain or especially in Germany emphasizes on their home grown or national players. Most premier league club owned by rich business man, they want their profit from the club and also want that their team not only dominate league but also Europe. Some teams owner like Machester City or Chelsea only wanted to win. Due to UEFA financial fair play rules, they are not spending unlimited amount without balancing their books. That's why Machester City hired former Barcelona technical director http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/20114517. They want to make this club as famous as Barcelona is. Chelsea is using great idea by using their good scouting network. They were buying best potential young player all over world in less price and sending them to some team on loan where they get more game time. If they performed well it will increase their value and they sold them if Manager don't think he will fit into his team. Chelsea sold Lukaku, De Bruyne for combine profit of 27 million euro(Buy 22+8,sell 35+22). Team in Spain do sell their best player and buy some cheap or youth as alternative. If it worked then they do this again otherwise they become weak team. German team can not afford too much wages. They value their youth academy and player do also sign release clause contract. Top team pay the amount and get the player. Youth should be priority for English team to become over dominant. Because he will be familiar with the style of team. He learn from top senior players. It also benefit national team. Example like Germany or Spain. Germany has producing that many young player that each position can be filled by at least 4 players. Bayern Munich is always dominating in German League but they were recently become very strong team like Barcelona or Real Madrid. They were signing those player which fulfill their team needs. Only Dortmund is capable of challenging them. But they were not financially too good. Last year due to less challenge in league, Bayern did not played their best and lost by Real Madrid in semi final of champions league. Bayern have no debt, so they will certainly be one of the powerhouse for coming years. Real always sign big players every year. Barcelona will want to become world best team again, so they were replacing their old squad with mixture of their academy players and top players around the world. Chelsea have made their team too strong from last year. Machester City did miss Aguero last year due to injury. They hope they will not again. Machester United will certainly become powerful again under Van Gaal. Liverpool hopes to continue their form this year too. So it is very difficult for Real, Barcelona and Bayern to become only force in Europe for long period of time.  http://worldsoccertalk.com/2013/11/14/revealing-distribution-of-tv-money-for-la-liga-clubs-compared-to-epl-clubs/ http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/about/the-worlds-most-watched-league.html

Baljeet Singh

While I try to watch at least one Premier League game per weekend televised, I do not find myself nodding in total agreement with the assumption that, with the exception of the three clear superior teams mentioned, that the EPL is top to bottom the best league in the world.  And I think that the group round of the Champions League is demonstrating that once again.  While it is possible that all four German teams will make it through -- three are currently atop their groups --it is fully possible that only Chelsea and Arsenal will make it through from the EPL.  The four Spanish entries are positioned as well as the four Germans. This is hardly unique in recent years.  What the EPL has is a tremendous public relations team and media team ensuring that its teams are featured throughout the world.  We had one two-week period in Minneapolis this summer when Swansea and Manchester City both played games in this city that doesn't yet have an MLS team.  What it does is create blind allegiance to the top ten or so teams in the EPL.  On the other hand, most Americans do not even have a clue what the CL represents. And most have never heard of Dortmund, Schalke, or Leverkusen.  Most are aware that Germany won the World Cup with a squad composed largely of Bundesliga players. If the EPL teams continue to fail when on the larger European stage, some of us might need to ask if we are not dealing with hype over substance. In the same vein, if the top four NBA basketball teams proved unable to win head to head tourneys against the top four Euroleague teams, one would begin to doubt the strength of the NBA despite its heavily promoted stars.

Thomas Johnson

Premier League is a more competitive league than the other three subjects of my comparison. Let alone fighting and winning a premier league, every moment is premier league is more challenging than others, esp La Liga. Please note that Bundesliga is a 18 team league, so the stats could well not be a fair comparison either way. 1. Winners from each of the leagues and few basic stats. From the above graphs we note, Only La Liga managed 90+ points Only La Liga managed to score 100 + goals Chelsea even with a decent defense got 32 goals scored against Crazy Goal difference at Barcelona Don't run into any conclusion with the above points. We need to go further. 2. Points by Top-6: Nearly an even distribution noticed at Premier League. Barcelona and Real Madrid are way ahead of the next 3, and Villareal is very much adrift. Bayern is easily ahead of the next 3 and Augsberg and Shalke 04 are further adrift Juventus is way ahead of an otherwise evenly matched league. 3. Difference of top 6 (in points) from the league leaders The difference between Barcelona and Athletico or Villareal, or Bayern and Schalke, Juventus and Roma is what I am talking about. 4. Also, a look at the bottom. Might be a lame excuse but, Premier League is more competitive in many ways, unlike Barca and Real has clear domination in La Liga, and are mostly unbeatable by any team XYZ from the league (30 wins from 38 games). Premier League on the other hand, every team needs to fight. Cordoba managed only 3 wins in La Liga while their bottom placed counter parts in EPL, QPR managed 8 wins. Now to answer the important part of the Question: How come participating in most competitive league, yet EPL teams chicken out in Europe? 1. EPL teams are relatively spending less than other leagues 2. Being able to compete in a difficult and a very much physical league put lot of fatigue and injuries on EPL bandwagon 3. Squad sizes of teams like Arsenal, Spuds and Liverpool is very small compared to the big guns of Europe. Team and Players in terms of valuation P.S: The Quality of Premier League has dropped in last 2 or 3 years, I hope people here agree with me. I would have done more justice to this answer had I replied with the similar analysis of a couple of years. And lot more info.

Asim Mohammed

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