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How do I change the mentality of this conservative, typical Indian man?

  • I am a 28 years old Indian woman.I have come from an open minded Indian family."You are a girl you can't do that" things were not imposed on me. Thus I grew up by having lots of male friends,I studied what I wanted, I had degree on software engineering and moved to another city for a new job without any objections from parents. Meanwhile, I dated few guys and failed in relationships few times too. And then I met this guy from my office, we became good friends. He flirted a bit but was well mannered and never crossed any limits, was always open for healthy discussions. He was jolly and humorous. The best thing was that he was hard working and passionate towards his job.He was a very good leader and had achieved more than any of his coworkers at his age and even many seniors. I started liking him a lot but I was little bothered as he used to flirt many attractive girls.I talked about my doubt to a co worker and he said that your crush is not a bad person and never crossed his limits towards any woman, He is always gentle and never mind light flirting. I proposed him. Initially he was surprised, confused,he told me that he never thought of any relationships before as he is easy with light flirting and all he ever considered about a woman was only beauty.He was not sure whether he can be in a committed relationship, I took it as a challenge and thought that I can actually put some positive aspects of a companionship in this enthusiastic young man's mind.We started dating as I told him that I will never impose anything on him. But after few months, when we were very comfortable, he started to tell me that he is very conservative about his girl and he does not want her to do a job. Freelancing is okay but staying at home is what he wants. I became sick, I talked to his family, His family is never against the job but their son is the only earner in the family and they had to agree with him. They just promised me that they will talk to him but he is so stubborn about it that nothing worked out. Also gradually I came to know his mentality about Indian women. A typical mentality where a man thinks that if a girl wears a mini skirt she is available for sex. That's why a woman whom he can take home should be reserved and wear saree/churidar/kurti etc. It's okay if a man talks/flirts with attractive women but a woman, especially a married woman can not have a male friend. These are the points which his family agreed too and they said- this is India and you have to follow social norms else you will be called a slut. My boyfriend has never behaved rudely but my open minded nature is making him insecure and there is no more a comfort zone between us now. He is not an evil person but his world is different. He has no idea that there are males who actually do not want to sleep with every woman they meet. According to him all men are wolves (the way he sees himself) and women should stay at home in order to stay away from these wolves.If she talks/works with these wolves they will get signals and will flirt with her and thus she will be called a whore to the society and a shame for the family. I understand that his upbringing was from a very conservative typical family (also they were very poor when he was a kid and his friend circle was never an educated one). His family fought and gave education to the child but could not educate him with an open mind due to their own boundaries towards modern thoughts. Also his father is completely illiterate and mother is very little educated and he never gained a habit of reading and refused to join quora due to lack of interests in reading (I thought presence of so many sensible Indians on quota can change his thoughts) I can give up this relationship any day, sometimes I feel the same also by getting sick of his orthodox male chauvinistic mentality. But then I see this bright young man who has struggled poverty and educated himself to reach to the top. Also,he is a responsible son/brother. He saved for his sister's marriage (his father had zero savings) and I have seen him not spending a single buck for his own luxury. He saved every penny, never bought any branded wear, high end gadgets or never went to restaurants and multiplexes. After spending all the savings in his sister's marriage he is now again saving for me(the marriage) and a decent house. Still he is leading a simple lifestyle but he never forgets to spend good when it is his family/me or any other occasions where he has to buy a gift. He is kind hearted for poor people and spend for charities. He is loyal towards me (yes, he still feel that talking to beautiful women is not wrong for a committed man but he only does not do it just because I do not like it,he does not fight but just tells me that he always has this urge to talk to them but of course I can not as I will be called a whore if I do the same). I have my self esteem and at the end shall never compromise my dignity. But I can at least try before ending everything. I want to have my own take of changing this stereotype. I just do not want to run away but stay there and change it. Hoping for some really helpful answers from my fellow Indian quoraholics. Thanks for reading this and attempting to help :) P.S  He had stayed few months in an European country and have many liberal friends from there.And nothing could change his mentality. Probably he has to shift to that country again for professional reason. I wonder how will he react to his wife then, will he abandon her from even socializing? Edit : 10/09/2015 I  am so glad that I am still having answers to this question. This  question I asked more than a year ago and you will be happy(or may not) to know that  I have been able to come out of this shitty relationship and moved on.  It took time, I stayed alone for long, I cried alone, but I got my  reward at the end. I decided to live life being myself and guess what,  some one came to my life after that just because he liked my quality of a  strong independent woman who takes life decisions herself and who stays out of all the drama, acts the way she is! The past has  taught me the biggest lesson - never compromise your pride and  happiness. Today, when I look back I sometimes get scared. But the phase  is over now and I am happy to be in a relationship where I get all the  spaces I want and so does he. Thank you all. Keep answering so that others can get help from this too. You have no idea how much these answers have helped me to take the decision!

  • Answer:

    Thank for the A2A . I speak from a position of having similar personal experiences. Going by what I have learnt from those: similar values and ethics (sense of right and wrong) are absolutely non negotiable essentials for any successful relationship because they form the basis of building trust and smooth communication between partners. You cannot change anyone's values and ethics because these are highly subjective in nature! Think of this, why should he change his values? Are you willing to give up yours? You are expecting him to do something that you would not do yourself! Even if every single person on quora could relate to your value system and not his, yours would still not be the absolute "right" one, because you are asking an audience you know already has similar values and therefore hang out in the same places. So be fair to him and yourself. Regardless of his admirable qualities, this one is a total non starter. You are buying yourself a one way ticket to hell for both of you if you do marry! Either you won't survive or your marriage won't. Long term that would hurt any resulting children and both the families. That's not a risk you can take. Just move on, however hard it may be. Find someone more similar. It's a big wide world and our short lives are very long!

Madhuri Sen at Quora Visit the source

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DON'T TALK, DON'T WALK - JUST RUN! I am one of the guys who many women friends open up to and talk freely. Your story is not unique in many ways. We have vast majority of Indian men who are Male Chauvinistic Pigs (MCPs). This is all about their upbringing and that CAN NOT be easily changed and no one should try to change them. Why? Essentially, these people consider relationships a power game - although they may appear very pleasant and logical and nice. At the root of it all is CONTROL! and NOT LOVE. Love always frees a person and expands their world and joy! Never constricts it. Also please understand that a guys education, professional success and other outward parameters don't make him a "nice person" to be with. In the end, I always advice all my friends and my sisters - be with a man who will give you wings and give you freedom to "LIVE YOUR LIFE". Please understand that all the talk and discussions are essentially "a mind fuck" and will not get you anywhere. The whole idea is to confuse you and control you not appreciate you as a person and give you joy. Talking to his parents is absolutely futile as at the root of it he has gained this attitude from family only. Please understand that you can't change anyone's mentality and especially "conservative" and "typical" nature of Indian Man. What you can do is, understand it and stand up for yourself and make your own choices in life. Bottom line is this typical conservative male is used to exerting control over women and will not change with any amount of logic, knowledge or most likely even with experience. It is their way of being. Initially I thought you were married and then when you added details to the question I was relieved. Look out for yourself, and simply leave the relationship. There is nothing to salvage, only your freedom and self esteem to be lost. Also remember this whole notion of "Traditional Values" is really misplaced and no value system that controls others is good. GO FOR A MAN WHO GIVES YOU RESPECT, EQUALITY AND KINDNESS. Also while there is no physical abuse in your relationship, the controlling nature and the women as object ideas are usually at the root of that. Today you are dating and not in his control so it is 'I love you' and 'I need you'. Once relationship is legalized the story will change.

Anil Chouhan

Okay, well I'm going to go against the flow here. You say that it has been a few months in your relationship. Few months. What you got from it was an awesome man with a constrained(according to you) mind. He has a different set of values that are opposite to yours and hence the problem. You need to analyze if your partner is completely incapable of change. Being brought up in a orthodox family along with conservative environment is something that can't be changed. His core values also, may be, cannot be changed. But they can be softened by you. You took up the challenge to love him, at least give it some time so that you absolutely know that you tried. Giving up is really easy, it is working on it that takes time. If it has been just a few months, give it a few more. Maybe your honeymoon period is now over and now you have started realizing each others reality. It may be difficult but that is how love is, I guess. You just don't give up on the first sign of pain, you go through it. No partner that you ever will find is going to be perfect, you will have to work through them, you will have to compromise and make them compromise, that is, if you love them and they love you back. Both of you will have to give in a little and accommodate the other. Things can get hard, but if you truly love each other, then you will find a way around it, or better, through it. Just give it a few more months, and focus on two things, how much potential does he and you have for changing your mindset and are you both willing to change to build your relationship? The important part here is that both should be willing to change for each other and not just one. If you think, after giving it time, neither of you can change, then quit.

Aniket Kaushal

Do you think trying to change his mentality is the best option? He is different from you. There is no compatibility of thoughts. You may try changing his mentality but it is always going to be a struggle between two ideologies. Do both of you love eachother enough to understand and live with your personal ways? You have mentioned the absence of comfort zone between you two. This is present even while you are working. Imagine how it will be after marriage. If you are working, then it will be against his wish. Will he be happy with it? If he is then okay. If not how comfortable are you two going to be? If you are not working, cutting out all male friends in your life will you still be comfortable? Do you seriously want to spend you rest of life with someone you are not comfortable? The reason I see you don't want to give up on relationship is not because you love him but because you admire him. Being generous, good leader, son, brother are all admirable qualities. People like you for that but they don't decide to spend their life with you for that. I won't get into whether his thinking is right or wrong but you are not ready to compromise on his thinking nor he is on yours and personally I don't think either of you should. So the choice is pretty clear according to me. Do you see yourself happily married to him ten years down the line?

Chandresh Kakliya

There is this kind of guys who are nice, good with family, careers, loyal enough. Sadly, their world is their own. Not everyone can fit. I have few colleagues of mine who fit the bill going by the description of this guy and i tell you they all are complete fakes. They don't go beyond flirting because all their life went away studying for exams and bagging a job. They do not have the guts to go beyond that. Meanwhile they see other guys getting the girls they want for anything (relationship,sex,whatever!). They assume any girl is susceptible to falling for such guys (Whom they call jerks). I am summarizing the above by saying that they are only a KIND of guys. Nothing too great about them to cling on to them if the only way to do so is kill your identity and stay home watching soaps and cooking daal for the family. Break it off !

Rajesh Shelmeda

I'll give you a simple perspective on this: How likely are you to be convinced to not be open-minded and easy going by someone else? Irrespective of your love for the person, would it be ok for you to leave behind your principles, morals and ethics for life just to be with that person? I'd say this is an adjustment one shouldn't make. Sure, relationships are built on trust and mutual understanding, but that understanding requires a common set of principles. I am sure he deserves to find a girl who agrees with his opinion, as do you to be with a guy who agrees and understands yours. I'd say be thankful for the good time spent together, and move on.

Sagar Mehta

Yeah he might change, but maybe after 10 years? You can't change 28+ years of upbringing in a few months or even a few years for that matter. Are you willing to put in 10 years of your life just to convince him to give you freedom to live your life? Would you even need that freedom 10 years down the line when you have 2 kids to take care of? These are the questions that you must ask yourself. Our actions in the present determine our future. Make your choice! Your life is your responsibility and you are free to shape it any way you want. God Bless you :-)

Vaibhav Kumar

My best advice would be to stay away from this guy.  As you mentioned, he may not be a bad guy but for a marriage to sustain compatibility matters a lot.  From your description of this guy and yourself, compatibility seems questionable.  As such any marriage has to face a lot of trying moments and to endure those times, the couple must have a solid foundation in their relationship. You may want to take up this relationship as a challenge and try to 'fix' him or 'change' yourself to make the relationship work.  Either way, the change will not last for a long time.  Frustration starts building up slowly and after a certain point, you both will not be able to stand each other.  That's when you both would start feeling like losers and want to end the struggle by getting separated.  I guess it's better breaking up at this point rather than investing all you time into a marriage to realize it's a mistake to begin with. Have an open conversation with him and discuss your priorities in life.  Be open in voicing your concerns and let him know that it should not become more complicated than it is right now.  A healthy relationship should  embrace each other's differences and should not suffocate the other person by curbing his/her freedom. Don't ever think that you can change a person.  That is not up to you.  Good luck with everything.

Nithya Periasamy

Look you explained all his background, he is hardworking smart guy that's fine and responsible as well, but frankly as a fellow Indian girl I would ask you to not consider this relationship, because you are a liberal and he and his family they are conservative. You would feel suffocated. When your own parents did not find any fault with you and raised you the way they did how can anybody else say all these things. May be he is trying to prepare you in advance for his house and his parents so you would not wear modern dresses. Some guys do that, believe me. You do not need to talk to anybody in his family instead, talk to your parents and decide about your life otherwise, they would blame you saying that girl was modern, was not good and would kill you in spirit. Also, you can ask your parents to talk to him (not his parents) about the differences you two have and how he and you feel about all this. Involve your family throughout. Weigh your decision because he has good qualities as well, he takes care of his family he would take care of you as well, but he really is 17th century in saying things women should not work and all. If he is planning to go to Europe, would he take you there or leave you with his parents thinking he do not wish to expose you to Europe. You would feel awkward there in sarees and chudidars. Guys like him are the biggest wolves, believe me and they themselves have done it all. Ask him why he feels the need to talk to beautiful girls and flirt. He has answered you on your face that "he feels the need to do that" when he can not even let you have normal working relationship with fellow male colleagues. Since you proposed him, someday he will throw that back in your face that, you came to him. It's okay mistakes happen and you are not married yet. He is the only one now, after your marriage there would be four more like him so, just keep this in mind. Biggest thing is you are not sure of this relationship so, do not take decision like marriage with a half heart. It is a little strong but you said it yourself - "Orthodox male chauvinist" - Run fast Run far.

Anonymous

Actualy to tell you the truth,most people will say he is a stereotype and should change.But I can garuntee you that the same people would have considered him right and you wrong had the discussion been held 30 years back,they just follow the trend and never think logicaly,Can you logically refute any of his arguments.Besides you already considered that people in "India" are not open minded and would consider you available if you are in a hot pant or a mini skirt.The fact is, people all over the world including the countries in western Europe and North America will consider the same,can say from personal experience.If it wasnot for true, Slut Walk wouldnot have been  initiated in Canada.Beside it really seems selfish on your part to make him come to your terms,so itwill be for him as well to make you come to his http://terms.So you need to discuss things logically and proceede with things which is for the collective good and not for indiviual satisfaction.

Anonymous

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