''no Taxation without representation?

Isn't forbidding immigrants from voting an obvious example of taxation without representation?

  • Millions of immigrants pay taxes on their income, purchases, property owned and many other forms of taxation in US, Canada, EU, Australia and other democratic systems. Yet they are denied having any say in how their tax money is spent. They can't elect representatives to voice their concerns in local governments (such as school and healthcare boards or city officials,) regional ones (state, provincial or similar) and Federal politics. An argument can be made for their exemption from taxation, based on this reality. Isn't it time to abolish the xenophobia that considers representation an undeniable "right" for one neighbor, while denying it as a "privilege" for the next?

  • Answer:

    Yes, it is. Unfortunately "No taxation without representation" is just a slogan, not a law. What I find remarkable with the current answers is that just about everyone includes some remark about how "it's always been like this everywhere". Well, it hasn't. The EU's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Participation_of_Foreigners_in_Public_Life_at_Local_Level allows EU citizens to vote and be elected for local elections in any other European country. Let me repeat: this applies to all of the EU. All the countries not in gray allow foreigners to vote in some form or other. In Ireland, non-EU foreigners can vote at local elections regardless of their country of origin and the amount of time they have been resident. In countries like Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, the Netherlands, Belgium and a few others, non-EU immigrants can also vote at local elections if they have been residents for a certain amount of time. Foreigners can vote at local elections in various countries of south America. Permanent residents of South Korea can vote at local elections. This was done in part so that Japan would agree to let their many South Korean residents do the same (which isn't yet the case). Of course this question is in large part about the United States. Well let me tell you something about the United States: Non-citizens cannot vote.   This was true in 1776 as well. Wrong. It has always been the case that the right to vote, for both local and federal elections, was for the states to decide. In 1776, the following states didn't have a citizenship requirement for voting: Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Virginia. In 1776, foreigners could vote in 10 of the 13 colonies. Massachusetts allowed it in 1780, South Carolina in 1790 and New Hampshire in 1792. The majority of the United States have had non-citizens voting at some point. The last state to ban it was Arkansas in 1926. Preventing non-citizens from voting is absolutely not "just the way the world works". It isn't even just the way America works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States And of course it's unfair for non-citizens to not have the vote. Extremely so. As a French citizen living in the US, I can simply tell you that I have no reasonable reason to care about the politics of France anymore. Of course I do care because it is my home country, but that's totally irrational. American politics on the other hand affect me much more directly (note that my argument isn't about me specifically however, quite frankly the fact that I can't vote right now doesn't matter to me very much right now). Don't get me wrong, of course immigrants know what they're signing up for, and yes not being able to vote isn't "unfair" in the sense that people are willingly putting themselves in this situation. This argument, however, could be used to justify pretty much any treatment of immigrants, as long as immigrants are aware that they would be treated that way. No minimum wage for immigrants? They knew what they were signing up for. No police services for immigrants? They knew what they were signing up for. These ideas seem ludicrous because we all understand the basic fact that just because some people accept an unfair treatment doesn't mean the treatment is actually fair to them. Finally there are a couple straw man arguments given in some of the other answers that I think I should address. The first one is that foreigner would vote in a way that is detrimental to the long term welfare of the country. Not to mention how extremely unlikely this is to happen on a large scale in the US, there are myriad ways countries that let foreigners vote prevent these issues including minimum residency requirements, only allowing residents of a specific set of countries the vote, and most commonly only allowing votes in local elections. In the US, foreigners are generally not even allowed to vote for their local school board! The second is that many people pay taxes that do not have the right to vote. No one is suggesting that everyone who pays taxes should be allowed to vote. There is a strong difference between paying a VAT in a couple products bought in a foreign country or being a disenfranchised felon and being a responsible, tax-paying member of a community who just doesn't happen to have a certain citizenship. This should be quite obvious. Quite frankly I don't feel super strongly about this issue (I'll probably be a citizen long before non-citizens can vote in California - if ever - anyway), but I believe it is much more complex than most people assume.

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Other answers

In the US and Canada the answer is clearly 'no'. Immigrants who are yet to naturalize do have representation in the form of congressional representatives (parliament members in Canada). While they CANNOT vote for them (for obvious reasons, in my view) they will give you their ear and help you out if you ask nicely. As a US taxpayer, the congressional "Taxpayer Advocacy Group" will fight for you regardless of citizenship status.

Ron Tal

The danger to the Republic is not taxation without representation.  We are following other once-great nations into oblivion because of representation without taxation.  Half the working public (and the rapidly growing half, at that) pays no taxes.   The top 5% is demonized in pop culture for not paying its "fair share" of taxes.......as if 59% of all taxes were not enough.  Essentially because of the influx of illegal immigrants whose children become automatic citizens, the future belongs to a culture of wealth redistribution.  John Kennedy's famous 1961 Inauguration phrase of "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country," has been perverted by the current generation of Democrats.  The one and only thing that Democrat voters care about, is what the government will give them.  The essential message of Democrat politicians is, "Vote for me.  I'll make someone else pay your living expenses. "  And it is apparently a winning message.                                                                                     So, yes, I admit to not wanting illegal immigrants to vote.   Ever.  Previous generations of immigrants did not arrive expecting government freebies.  They wanted only a chance to become one of the top 5%.

Fred Chapman

The current rash of immigration into Europe and Sweden in particular results in a massive net and permanent economy drain. Despite which Sweden in particular is fast-tracking immigrants to full citizenship. This is the opposite side of the coin to taxation without representation. This is welfare with representation.

Julian Cox

Immigrants voluntarily move to the United States. No one has forced them to move to the US. As such, they are guests of the country and are bound by the laws of the country. Legal immigrants also have the opportunity to gain citizenship and would therefore have opportunity to have representation. If you a an immigrant and have no desire to become a citizen but wish to remain in the country, they you actively choosing to have no representation. Putting all that aside, there are plenty of people who do represent the non citizen immigrant as well as people who represent the illegal alien.. So in the end, legal immigrants to have the opportunity to have representation if they so desire.

David Holland

Is it fair for me to work in NYC and live in NJ and get tax money withheld by NY state? I can't vote in NY - but they take my money. I write it off as that state affording me the opportunity of employment.  Kinda like I would write off paying the local leg breaker to not break my legs.... Is becoming a citizen to much to ask? Because I know moving to NY is to much to ask of me...

Matthew Martin

It is an extremely simple concept: citizens are allowed to vote, non-citizens are not.

David Rowe

Become a Citizen of which ever country your fussing about and you will have the right to vote.  You will also have the responsibility to go to war to defend that country.

Don Wurner

I believe a very blunt and less philosophical answer to your question is that you need to be a citizen to vote. Individuals should only be allowed to vote in one country (or you could have "citizens of the world" and imagine what a headache that would be during elections...) therefore you must become a citizen to vote in the US. The reason they pay taxes in the US is because they are benefitting from infrastructure and systems that were paid for with taxes by citizens and non citizens. Anyone in the world can make a buck in the US (many many people do), however as payment for the benefit of "using" the strong US economy, Uncle Sam will take his cut. If I invest in a German company on a German exchange and make money I will pay whatever gains taxes Germany may have (or I would, don't know the specific laws). I certainly wouldn't feel that I had the right to vote, however. Works for real estate as well. Oddly enough, I would also pay US taxes on my German gains, because the US tax code actually requires citizens to report GLOBAL income. Edit--Just saw the "attach legal disclaimer" button haha. I guess I should stop.This answer is not a substitute for professional legal advice....

Sidney Jackson

This question is malformed and is hard to read.  I'm fascinated by it. I'll try to answer it as asked: forbidding any person from voting is not an obvious example of taxation without representation.  Making it unduly difficult to vote when qualified (whether natural born or immigrant), or making it extraordinarily difficult for people to become qualified as a voter would be an obvious example of a nation/state creating an unjust system of establishing the electorate.  Then, yes, all manners of injustice are likely. People pay tax all the time, whether qualified as voters in a specific municipality, state, province, country, with no say as to where the money goes. Quoting: "An argument can be made for their (immigrants) exemption from taxation," .. I'd like to hear one.  Make it.  No person (and no corporation!) should be exempt from the tax schedule. Quoting: "Isn't it time to abolish the xenophobia that considers representation an undeniable 'right'.."  The "right" to _choose_ representation is deniable by society.  See the part above where it should not be extraordinarily difficult to become a participant.  Unrelated but continuing, felons, by law, do not get to participate in choosing their representatives.  They are still protected by law.

Michael Chan

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