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Why do we write the names of Vietnamese and Thai people the wrong way in English newspapers?

  • For example, David Smith who family name is Smith is called David Smith in the first time his name is mentioned in a news story, but in the second and third references we call him Mr Smith or just Smith, as in Mr Smith said, or Smith said.   But for Yingluck Shinawatra, who family name like Smith is Shinawatra, and her brother is called Thaksin Shinawatra, we call them in English newspapers as Yingluck or Thaksin for second and third reference in a news story, and that is like called Mr Smith above as David in the second and third refs. That seems disrespectful to this Yankee editor living in Asia.   Yes in Thailand, they do it that way in Thai language newspaper yes, i know. But in Western newspapers I feel that we should refer to her as Ms. Shinawatra the second ref and her brother as Mr Shinawatra for second and third refs. Yes or no? Agree or disagree?   And the same applies to names of VIetnamese people living in Vietnam or in the USA.  A man named Nguyen Thu Thuy is in reality Mr Nguyen, since family name comes first in Vietnam naming order.....and USA newspapers and UK papers do call him Nguyen Thu Thuy on first referemce. But on second and third refs they call him Thuy, and again that is like calling Mr SMith above as "David" the second and third refs. We know that is wrong. So why do we teat Thai and Vietnamse names in a disrepsectul way?   Go to Japan. There, everything is fine. While in Japanese cutlure names are WATANABE Hironobu, family name first like China and Taiwan and Vietnam, most English newpspaper will refer to him in English now as Hironobu Watanabe, and then most readers will know that his family name is Watanabe and Davide Smith's name is Mr Smith, not Mr David.   The previous PM in Japan was called Junichiro Koizumi in first reference and Koizumi in second ref....Why can't we bring Thai and Vietnamese names up to speed on this, for English newspapers and online sites?

  • Answer:

    Names of people in India are treated correctly in English newspapers, as are people frm the Philippines. This is not about word order, differeing word order is fine, to respect cultural traditions, as exists in China and Taiwan and HK and Singapore and Vietname and Thailand. This is about the second reference giving readers and TV viewers the actual real FAMILY name in second ref, as in Mr X  or Mrs X....

Danny Bloom at Quora Visit the source

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In Vietnam, people address each other using first names, not last names. A woman named Nguyen Thu Thuy, (Nguyen being last name and Thuy first name) for example, will be addressed with full name on first reference, and with first name Thuy (or Ms Thuy) after that. Thus, addressing Nguyen Thu Thuy as Thuy on Western media actually conforms to Vietnamese practices. Why Vietnamese people address by first name and not last names (surnames): There are only about 200 Vietnamese surnames; to make it even worse, 13 most popular surnames make up 90% of the population. Using surnames when addressing was simply impractical. While Chinese naming is somehow similar, with a limited set of surnames, the distribution is wider, and the disparity is also comparatively higher (100 most common Chinese surnames make up 85% of the population), so addressing by surnames in China is more feasible. There are exceptions for that "first name rule" though: An established practice is to use surnames when addressing certain revered historical personalities (there is no rules to decide which personalities deserve that privilege, though): - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh was Uncle Ho - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton_Duc_Thang was Uncle Tôn - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Diem was President Ngô (but his brother http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Nhu was Mr Nhu, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Van_Thieu was President Thieu, both are customarily addressed by first names). - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Boi_Chau was Elder Phan (but without the context, it can be confused with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Chu_Trinh, a contemporary nationalist). Addressing by surnames is an archaic custom, adopted from China and used to be practiced among Confucian elite scholars. As a result, it can also be used to show respect  to personalities other than those mentioned above, but only when the context is clear enough to avoid potential confusion. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Du can be address as Mr Nguyen in a context that mentioned him, even though the surname Nguyen make up 40% of the population of Vietnam. Paradoxically, in some context, addressing by surnames can also be used to make fun! (especially by parodying an faux archaic feeling, and through that evoking a sense of being backward, obsolete, or at least, obsolete). In short, for Vietnamese, the custom is too address people by first name, not last name. I don't know about Thailand, but I guess the issue is similar.

Tris Nguyen

The rule of addressing a person internationally stems from the way people usually see in the media. If names of a certain people are consistently written and said on TV or on the radio or on the Internet then that pattern sticks.That applies to the way Asian names appear in Western media. The Japanese names, for example, are consistently written following the Western given name-family name order, hence they are known as such. Compare Abe Shinzo (family-given) in Japan and Shinzo Abe (given-family) in the US. Japanese people do not mind that thus that rule sticks.Other East Asian names such as Chinese, Vietnamese or Korean are consistently written and said following the family name-given name order, which is the opposite of the West. The President of China is invariably known as Xi Jinping; it is strange to call him Jinping Xi. Chinese, Vietnamese or Korean find that ok so in Western media their names are written so.The same applies to the way people are addressed. Thai and Vietnamese generally do not find it offensive to be addressed using their given names. A Vietnamese woman named Nguyen Thu Thuy has given name Thu Thuy, shortened to Thuy for short. She would not mind being called Mrs. Thuy. This is due to common Southeast Asian tradition to call people by their given name(s). I, for one, did not know the family name of my Indonesian friend until recently. Nor did I know that of my Thai friend.In Vietnam the situation is even more complex. First, the majority of Vietnamese have one of the most common 15 family names, and about 40% have the most common family name Nguyen. Second, Vietnamese typically do not like saying full names in normal situation. So, Vietnamese tend to use given names mostly, to the point of forgetting the others' surname.Many Vietnamese, however, like to be called by their family name. That is not limited to Hồ Chí Minh, Tôn Đức Thắng, Ngô Đình Diệm, Phan Bội Châu, Phân Châu Trinh, Trịnh Công Sơn etc. It is not simply an archaic custom, but rather an emphasis on the family rather than the individual. It appears that only after the 1950s that people tend to refer to themselves with their given name and call others as such. Whatever the era, however, in formal context it is customary for Vietnamese to address others in full names or to use titles like chủ tịch (president), giáo sư (professor), tiến sĩ (doctor) and so on.So, it is not wrong in the English newspapers to use Vietnamese given name as a style of address. However, it is important to address that person's full name first before using the given name alone. Some Vietnamese prefer to use their family name in the professional context, however, and that too must be respected. I, for one, always use my family name and only a few know my given name.

James Luong (梁孟俊)

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