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Should I move to Italy?

  • I am thinking about moving to Italy from the US for the lifestyle, and need input on whether this is crazy, and whether I can live comfortably on the money I make. If you've done this yourself or are familiar with life on both sides of the pond, I’d love to hear your thoughts. I work in tech in the greater NYC area as a senior voice user interface designer, 15 years into my career. I have recently become single and sold my house and am now in a position to move anywhere. I am thinking I'd like to transfer to my company’s office in Turin for a couple of years, or longer if I like it. I have two children aged 8 and 9, and a small dog aged 10. I’ll break down the various points below to make it easier, as this is a vast topic. Visa: As an intra-company transfer I would not be subject to the Italian work visa quota, so this is not an issue. Language: My company operates in English in Italy, but I also speak pretty good Italian (as well as fluent French). The children do not speak Italian. I would enroll them in a bilingual school in the first year and if they are comfortable move them to an Italian public school the next year. Money: I make $120K/year in the US and get another $21K in child support. Assume we don’t live an extravagant lifestyle, but if I save 10-15K I am happy because where we live is really expensive. I am sick of making so much and not having much to show for it. In Italy my company would pay me market rate. I’ve done some preliminary research and it looks like I might net 40K Euro after tax/health deductions. Housing: I’ve researched the area where my company has its office and I could rent a very comfortable apartment for 1K/month. In the US, housing and utilities eat up about 4k/month and I spend 1K/month on food. I live in an expensive town in CT with high taxes and excellent schools. We can’t walk anywhere. School: We don’t pay for school here. In Italy I’m looking at about 12K Euro for the first year for both kids together in the bilingual school, and free the next year if the children’s Italian is up to scratch, which I have no reason to believe it won’t be. I too went to a foreign-language school as a young teen and did fine. Car: I own a six-year old SUV but it’s a gas guzzler and I don’t want to take it with me. I would store it in the US or, if too expensive, sell it. In Italy I imagine I would need a small car unless there’s a car sharing option that’s cheaper. Childcare: I work from home and the children attend afterschool programs that cost about $2000/year. I don’t have other childcare costs. In Italy I expect the remote working arrangement will either continue or I will be able to put children in an afterschool program like I do here. Moving costs: I would move my furniture. I received a quote for $11K for the move, with packing and unloading included. Lifestyle: My main motivator for this move. I want the children to be more independent and that means being able to walk to school, the park, the store. I also want them to be bilingual and Italian is a great language to have in one’s skillset. I want them to experience the European lifestyle, where people cook at home and socialize way more. I love the friendly Italians. I love that I can take six and a half weeks’ vacation instead of three weeks (in the US that includes sick days, in Italy sick days are separate). My family also owns a beach house a six hour drive away from Turin that we’ll be able to use. Family: The children’s father is in Australia so they only see him in the summer. Moving to Italy would not make a substantial difference to that. The rest of my family lives all over the place, and we see each other rarely, but my retired mother would likely move to the beach house year round if we do move to Italy, and be there for us as needed. Friends: We live a pretty lonely life in the woods of Connecticut where we came from a big city three years ago after my divorce. At the new school the children have had an entirely different set of classmates each year, so I am not concerned that they will miss their friends too much. My own friends live too far away for regular visits. Facebook is really my only social life at this point. Safety net: I do have $100K in savings from the sale of my house here but I’d prefer not to touch that, as I’ll need it when we come back to the US. I am a US citizen, and my company would take me back in the US at my current job. Timeline: I'm thinking of making the move next summer, and I'd work on teaching the kids Italian in the meantime. If an earlier move is possible, I would even consider January.

  • Answer:

    I wouldn't take the furniture. For much less than the 11k moving cost you could buy new furniture.

anonymous at Ask.Metafilter.Com Visit the source

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Go. Don't bring the furniture. It will be far most cost efficient and practical to put it in storage in the US. There are a lot of reasons for this: a) The scale of European homes is often smaller than US ones. Your couch, your dining table, all of that are unlikely to be suited to an Itialian apartment. b) Your appliances are all the wrong voltage. Your washer and dryer are the wrong scale. c) I am not sure of the standard in Italy but in a lot of Europe, apartments often come furnished. Also, as you know nothing of neighbourhoods or preferences, you may want to start with a short-term rental while you get organised!

DarlingBri

Wow. This sounds fanatastic. Do it! I have good friends who moved to France with their 10 and 12 year olds last year and did intensive tutoring over the summer but the kids started school with no French and quickly figured it out. And if this all falls apart can you transfer back? Otherwise GO GO GO GO GO!

k8t

Stay home. Don't go. Don't even think about it. Send me instead. Seriously. I'll take the bullet for you on this one.

kanewai

Timeline: I'm thinking of making the move next summer, and I'd work on teaching the kids Italian in the meantime. If an earlier move is possible, I would even consider January. Put them in Italian classes right now and start selling stuff to cover it. Or just balance it against the fact you will save $12K for the bi-lingual school when you get there because they can go straight into normal school. Seems to make sense purely on a logistical/monetary basis to me, but has the added benefit that they won't need to move schools after a year.

Brockles

Absolutely go. I went to Italy with two suitcases with absolutely no Italian on two days notice. I stayed there for 8 months and wished I'd been able to work it to stay longer. Go. Absolutely go. DO NOT store your car - just sell it. It will be a terrible idea to ship it over there (and enormously expensive) and it will not be worth the cost of storage over selling it. Buy something smaller and more economical in Italy (They have much better choices for cars for this over there than in the US). Also, don't take your furniture, but rent a furnished place. It will not cost you $22K extra ($11K each way, don't forget) to rent a furnished over unfurnished place even if you stay there 3 years. Also, the size of american furniture will mean finding an Italian place will be tough as the house/apartment styles are very different. Not worth the hassle. Also, nothing electrical will work anyway (Italy has 220v electric, not the US puny 110). Either find somewhere rural and dirt cheap and store your furniture there or sell most of that too. I have all my stuff in storage in Canada fairly close to a major city (I am living in an RV in the US right now) and it is costing me $110 a month for a 20 foot container. It would be $150 for a 40 foot container, and that's 73 months of storage for just your moving out costs.... I think I could have dropped that price a bit if I'd moved it further out into the sticks. Take the bare minimum. You really won't need it. Just take clothes, irreplaceable valuable (maybe) and the stuff you need to work and the kids (inside) toys. If you pack the front of your storage unit with 'stuff I may need' in marked boxes, you can always have a friend or the storage place ship you the boxes anyway. Tip: Be meticulous about your listing when packing. Because if you do decide to ship everything and stay in Italy you will need to have listed everything for customs. So may as well do it now. It also helps people go in and get a box to ship to you if needed, but to be honest I'd rent a furnished place and enjoy the freedom that offers.

Brockles

Oh - one thing you didn't mention. How's your retirement looking? Can you continue putting money away for retirement in the same way? What about saving for the kids' school? Would you get paid in euros or dollars? Where will you keep most of your money? There are expat forums that can make some recommendations.

k8t

The only thing that was sticking out to me as I was reading your question is the potential of taking your kids away from their dad, but as that's not an issue, GO FOR IT!!!

mollymayhem

and free the next year if the children’s Italian is up to scratch, which I have no reason to believe it won’t be Do your kids speak any Italian now? If not, this sounds somewhat optimistic to me: even with all the immersion, zero to fluent enough to follow school in one year does not sound like such a slam dunk. Not that your plan does not sound robust enough to take it, but be prepared to spend for another year of the mixed school if you have to.

Dr Dracator

Oh also for the furniture, get more quotes. It cost us something like NZ$4000 (~US$2500) to move half a container from NZ to Ireland so US$11000 may be excessive. There was a huge range in what we were quoted for the same service from different companies, definitely look around. Also take a look at timelines. It took a bit over 3 months for ours to arrive (it came by boat to England, then truck via ferry to Ireland, then moving van to our city). This was fine because we're here long term and our first rental was furnished anyway, but might make a difference to you. This is also part of the price, we were a shared container and shared truck which makes it slower but cheaper. You've got plenty of time to work it out anyway.

shelleycat

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