Question about rock climbing etiquette

I can't directly answer the climbing question, but want to weigh in that your boyfriend's behavior toward you was inappropriate. It's not cool to tell your partner to quit activity because you aren't serious enough about activity. He needs to apologize for flipping out at you. If he doesn't, that's a big red flag.

First, I want to take a second to congratulate you for knowing your comfort levels and for standing up for your right to be comfortable. You deserve to have a good time climbing and you first and foremost, absolutely deserve to be and feel safe. or me (and many others) Rock climbing is concerned with three things. Safety Having fun Building Competence and Confidence I would go so far as to argue that they be consistently ordered in this way. Having a good time comes before getting awesome/impressing other people/whatever. I love to climb but I happily "cheat" if it leads to me and others around me having a better time. I don't hang on the wall for twenty minutes looking the the next hold on the route, I grab a hold that will help me get to the top. Nobody is keeping score. Do you know what falling off a rock face does to the good time of everyone around? Thankfully I can't tell you this from experience, but it puts a bummer on the day to see someone grievously injured. I know you're using all the safety equipment and I know yours is tested regularly, and I know your belay is never every taking their eyes off you, and I know your communication is flawless and confident and never ever misunderstood. (Oh wait. I don't know those things! Rock climbing danger is rarely about one safety thing failing. It's about two or three things that go wrong at exactly the wrong times. This is why your brain wants to learn the route with extra safety in place. In case your brain is one of the safety tools that fails!) Dick waving doesn't ever belong on a rock face of any sort, height, or difficulty. Moving beyond your skill level more quickly than you feel competent to do so is not necessary, and it is dangerous. There doesn't need to be any keeping up with the Joneses. Especially in the case of your safety and your feeling safe. Sure, feeling safe and being safe are not the same thing (Lots of good research about risk, but we don't need to delve into that here) but feeling safe is really important. Your boyfriend was asking you to feel unsafe. He was dismissing your concerns and belittling you. He was making unfair comparisons ("nobody") He was making threats. ("You will never," was meant to spur you to action, and all of those future oriented statements were threats.) He was not telling you any objective truths You might find climbers who share your boyfriends belief. Don't climb with them. There are plenty of other climbers who respect your safety as much as you do. You were 100% right to feel the way you felt, and to make the choice you made. And frankly, I think you were very brave to not climb in the face of so much invective. Many many people would say "I guess my judgment isn't that great, he's been doing this a long time. I'll follow his instructions." And this decision might work in situations where there's less at stake.

No, there's no etiquette issue here. He's pulling that straight out of his ass. I'm trying real hard to think of a more dickish thing a "boyfriend/coach" could do, and I'm failing. This is like putting someone on skis for the first time and insisting on going down a black diamond run because that's what "real" skiers do. Fuck this clown.

This doesn't have anything to actually do with climbing. It could also be all about running or cake baking or scuba diving or deciding where to get dinner.* When in a supposedly caring relationship your significant other gets all pissy and says that you: * should quit something you enjoy * you will never be a real _____, that's SO FAR from being a sympathetic or even NICE person, it kind of staggers the mind. What a crappy way to talk to your partner. And the fact that you're here asking if he's right, to me, indicates that you may want to slowly extricate yourself from this guy. When you're second-guessing your instinct and someone's being aggressive toward you, you should consider getting out of that relationship. *The etiquette in this question has nothing to do with climbing and everything to do with your boyfriend's behavior.

He told me that no one does that. My primary climbing partner and I have been climbing for a bit over two years, and we sometimes do that. So there's one point against "no one does that." No one allows that. And that's just bullshit. There are very few "rules" in recreational rock climbing. If you want to top rope first, if you want to get a ton of beta (i.e. information about how to climb a route), if you want to watch other people, if you want to take a bunch of rests, if you want to cheat and grab a hold on a different route to make your life easier, whatever. You can set your own goals, whether that's to lead climb everything with no prior knowledge or to goof-off on top rope. As long as you're being safe, the most important thing is that you enjoy it. It's supposed to be fun. I would never find another coach or partner who would allow me to do that. Patently false. If my climbing partner wanted to top-rope a route instead of lead it I wouldn't care in the slightest, and vice versa. I should quit climbing because I only want "experience" not real climbing. I would never be a real climber No True Rockclimber, huh? Ask him why he does lead climbing instead of trad climbing. After all, if you're not bringing up your own protection then it's not "real climbing." You're still just following somebody else's route. Am I an abject failure as a climber because I am willing to give up my chance for an onsight? Absolutely not. And frankly your boyfriend is being a dick about it. And an idiot. He's pushing away a partner that enjoys the same activity he does, and he's doing it for stupid reasons.

Climbing culture is extremely regional, and different behavior will be more or less acceptable in different places. That said, it's pretty universal that the person climbing is in charge. If you don't feel comfortable doing something, don't let someone pressure you into doing it. This goes double when leading. Personally, I would top-rope a climb probably 2 grades higher than I would lead. I spent last weekend climbing outdoors at Peterskill, and was only top roping all weekend. It's expected that most people will top-rope there, as there are easy walkups to the top of cliff, and great places to set anchors. Did I not "really" climb last weekend? While some people might say that you haven't "really" climbed something until you've done it on lead, that is not my goal. My goal is to enjoy myself safely. Pushing myself on top rope (especially indoors) feels safe. Pushing myself on lead (especially trad) does not feel safe. Maybe some day it will, but not today. When I asked a friend how he built up expertise in climbing, he said that he met people at the cliff and volunteered to second for them. Since a lot of people wanted to lead, they were thrilled to have (and teach) partners who wanted to always follow and clean for them. He spent that time learning, building strength, familiarity, and confidence. No one would say he's not a real climber. In terms of competitive, and elite-level climbing, people might say routes are done on lead. Top rope might be considered practice and not "really doing it". I don't see that applying to my every day life, and I don't think it applies to you either.

Your boyfriend is being a jerk and he shouldn't be your "coach". Climb for fun. I understand why he is probably frustrated that he has to lead climb to set your route every time because that gets old if its not a grade you are personally climbing. I work with autistic teenagers that are learning to climb and for whatever reason most of them struggle with leading so I set. all. the. routes. At a certain point its feels as though they should be able to lead their own stuff or climb something they can. But I'm staff, not their significant other. When I was learning how to climb outside I was also scared. Like you, I learned by climbing high 10's/low 11's in the gym. When I transitioned outside I climbed a ton of high 8's/low 9's until I felt comfortable being outside. Try that and get new friends to climb with.

I can't comment on climbing etiquette, but this "you can't do activity X like that, because it's not REAL activity X" is bullshit, like saying you can't ride a bike because you want to ride a hybrid instead of a road bike because that's not a REAL bike, or you can't play video games if you want to play Just Dance instead of Dark Souls because that's not a REAL videogame. It's a silly, elitist, and often sexist way to view things.

He told me that no one does that. Wrong. No one allows that. Wrong. I would never find another coach or partner who would allow me to do that. Wrong Wrong Wrong. I should quit climbing because I only want "experience" not real climbing. I would never be a real climber. Come on, now he's just being an ass. I've been climbing for 20 years in the U.S., and never heard such nonsense. Possibly there are regional differences, but I find it hard to believe NO ONE in Korea does this. Especially in larger groups, with mixed levels? All the time. If it's just my husband and me, we try to pick a place with a mix of levels, so he doesn't have to set ALL my climbs for me. But I might follow all his warm up climbs, in between leading some easier ones. And if I don't think I can finish a top rope behind him, I might not try it, so he doesn't have to climb it a second time to clean it too. But you know what? Once I went on a trip with some girl friends, and I led every single climb, and then went back and cleaned them as well, because no one else was comfortable. But we had a fantastic time, because Girl Power!!! And btw, 10c is NOT a beginner lead. You should lead 9s until you're comfortable moving up. Good god, I hope that wasn't your first outdoor lead. You should have no problem finding climbing partners if you come back to the U.S., at whatever level. And lastly, just climb with your boyfriend for fun, if you really think you need a coach, find someone else. That almost never ends well. My husband and I can only play volleyball together because we have a rule: he is Not Allowed To Give Advice.