How to deal with sexual jealousy in a relationship?
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My boyfriend sometimes expresses sexual attraction to other girls when he's with me and I'm wondering if a) his actions are reasonable, b) my reaction to this is reasonable or c) if there are underlying issues behind this that need to be addressed. FYI I'm 24, female, and started dating this guy, P, a little over four months ago. Overall P is a great boyfriend - he's very loving and affectionate and committed and I have no reason to believe that he would cheat on me. He's a pretty strange guy, and quite different to all the other guys I've dated previously. I guess you'd say he's not my usual 'type', but I love him and value our relationship. On a couple of occasions he's said or done things that have really upset me. The first time was shortly after we started having sex, when we revealed our fantasies to one another. I know this can be minefield territory for some people, but I was cool about it at the time (I guess I wasn't so emotionally invested in the relationship at that stage either). He revealed that he was turned on by the idea of group sex/swingers/orgies and that it was something he wanted to try. I halfheartedly admitted that it was something I might try, but definitely not with someone to whom I was emotionally attached, so he knows where I stand on the issue and has never actually asked me to do it. One night P suggested watching porn together and he asked me if I wanted to be the girl in this video, and I said I did (the video was in the category of one of my fantasies). I then asked him (because I felt awkward and didn't know what else to do/say) if he wanted to be the guy in the video, and he said 'yeah...especially if I got to fuck her'. I didn't say anything at the time because I didn't want to ruin the moment, but it upset me, the way he was focused on her and fantasising about fucking her (I know, I know, I asked the question and I got the response). We watched porn maybe once or twice after that and each time it was hurtful to see him transfixed on this image of another girl, as if I wasn't even there. It just made me feel so shitty and inadequate. Afterwards I told him I'm not really into watching porn together and we haven't done it since then. I totally get that it's normal to fantasise about other people, and that most guys have a desire to sleep with multiple women, but it's not something I want to hear about. And I don't think most guys would talk about this stuff openly with their girlfriends (and rightly so), for fear of upsetting them. On a couple of other occasions he's upset me - once when he was not-so-subtly checking out a well-endowed girl at the gym (and later tried to make up for this by saying he used to think he liked big boobs but now he finds my small boobs extremely sexy), and another time when he said that he finds athletically toned women attractive and that whenever he sees a girl with abs he imagines that she's really great in bed (since he goes to the gym quite a bit, my jealousy kicked into overdrive after hearing that). For the record, I am not well-endowed or athletically toned (I'm your typical Asian girl - short, on the slender side and not curvy) and am sometimes insecure about my body. P seems very preoccupied with sex in general - he has a high sex drive and wants to talk about sex a lot (he tries to 'sext' me most days, talks about past sexual partners, mentions that he finds certain girls attractive, and will, out of the blue and in non-sexual settings, describe his fantasies to me). I know that mental landscape is pretty normal for guys, but it just doesn't seem appropriate for him to communicate those things to me. Each time he says something that upsets me, I do my best to calmly express my hurt, and P always responds with genuine regret and concern, and apologises sincerely, but I don't think he really understands how or why I feel the way I do; he just feels bad for upsetting me. We seem to smooth things over fine, but I wish he was more sensitive to my perspective. He also knows that I go through episodes of depression and have previously struggled with eating disorders and body dysmorphia. I get that I need to work on my self-esteem, but am I right in thinking that he is in the wrong here? After expressing my hurt on several occasions, you'd think that'd be enough for him to stop putting his foot in his mouth. Sometimes I get paranoid and think that he's doing this to plant seeds of insecurity in me, so that I'll seek his approval and become more attracted or more attached to him, because isn't that one of the theories of 'The Game' and PUAs? I know that he's read extensively on that sort of thing. What's even more unsettling is that I've started taking on this hurt as sexual fantasy. When we're having sex, or when I'm masturbating, I fantasise about him fucking other women and debasing me by making me watch or making me participate against my will. Whenever I want to orgasm, that's what I fantasise about. I feel like I'm starting to become fixated on it. I have amazing orgasms but I feel awful afterwards; I get this real visceral experience of jealousy and inadequacy, like there's something festering away inside me. It makes me feel so alone; I don't want to tell him about these fantasies because I can't stomach the idea of him fantasising about these things too (even though he might already...though maybe not to the extreme that I do, and maybe without the sadomasochistic bent). I guess my question is...am I being crazy/neurotic? It's been getting to me more lately, and sometimes he'll say something that will send me tail-spinning into a very dark place. These feelings with P are all new to me as I'm usually very level-headed and have always been made to feel like I'm completely and exclusively desired by my partner, even though I know, intellectually, that it's a just one of those pretty illusions we uphold in relationships (but dammit, I want the illusion!).
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Answer:
It's sad that you feel alone in what should be a very intimate relationship. Sometimes I get paranoid and think that he's doing this to plant seeds of insecurity in me That doesn't sound paranoid. That's what is happening. Whether or not it's conscious on his part does not really matter. You're not crazy. You're not neurotic. I've only had one boyfriend do this type of thing to me and it had a lot of ramifications. I am being honest when I say that I haven't looked at another woman the same way since, and I haven't even spoken to him for two years. I compare myself to literally every woman I see now and it's really unpleasant and makes me feel bad. No other man that I've ever dated has even checked out another woman with me - at least not in a way that was visible to me. Obviously they're checking other ladies out, but they don't let me know. It's not an illusion to keep that type of thing to yourself, by the way: it's just kind and right. Have you checked out another man since starting dating this guy? Probably, almost certainly. Did you tell him about it or make it known? Probably not. Why not? Was it to maintain an illusion or was it because it is entirely unnecessary to tell your partner that kind of shit because no good can come of it but it can result in great harm to them? This guy might be very good at acting kind about other things but this is a tremendous unkindness, and it's one that is making you question yourself and your own sanity. I don't want to be hyperbolic but I have to say that were I in your position I would turn around and find a man who treated me better than this. You deserve to be with someone who treats you well and who doesn't twist his crummy behavior into something that is your fault and your problem. All the best to you.
sweetshine at Ask.Metafilter.Com Visit the source
Other answers
There are a million dudes who will not do this. This is not "normal" dude behavior you have to put up with it. I'm not saying DTMFA, I'm saying if/when you eventually do, the next guy is likely going to be so much more respectful about this sort of thing. You are not being crazy.
Juliet Banana
Noooooo no no no. This is absolutely not ok. The part where you started masochistically fantasizing about him with other women, and feeling awful afterwards? YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS. For no other reason, please leave this person; this is going to kill you and make future intimate relationships so complicated. Oh please trust me on this.
celtalitha
For those of you still following: I broke up with P tonight. I tried to have a dialogue with him about the relationship, and he was just so defensive and sulky about everything. Even after revealing how hurt I was by his actions, all he could do was make it about him and talk about how shitty I was making him feel and how I was blaming him for my own issues (I tried to be as non-accusatory as possible but I'm not sure how well that came across). He didn't really show any genuine concern for me, even after telling him that I'd spent days without sleeping or eating because of how anxious I felt. He had the demeanor of a child who'd been made to apologise to someone for something they weren't actually sorry about - he said he'd just stop saying those kind of things if it upset me that much. He said "I would do that for you", as if it were some sort of heroic feat. As some of you correctly assessed, he was only upset because he felt he was being attacked, not because he discovered that someone he claims to love very deeply was hurting in a very real way. He tried to defend himself by saying that on some of those occasions where he made insensitive remarks, he was 'sexually frustrated' because I didn't go home with him, and that's why his mind was on sex, and that's why he'd made those remarks about desiring other women. I lost it at that point. I started trying to breakdown all the fucked up, misogynistic assumptions contained in that train of thought right there, but I decided it wasn't worth my time. I didn't think he could do much worse, but then he went on to say "I guess we can just have phone sex on the nights you don't come home with me". Wow. Bravo, P. Good fucking riddance. (Thank you everyone for knocking some sense into me).
sweetshine
Super-agree with griphus that the PUA mention makes me not give this guy the benefit of the doubt. When someone tells me he's read and enjoyed The Game and subscribes to any PUA product or school of thought (or, dear god, has paid money for a "seminar" or podcast), what they're also telling me is this: - I don't respect women as individuals - I see women as disposable - I see sex as an accomplishment - I am breathtakingly insecure and unsure how to act without an instruction manual For the sake of your emotional health and future relationships, it would be a good idea to extract yourself from this four-month-old fling. This guy is absolutely 100% "keeping you on your toes" and manipulating you for his own gratification. You seem smart and reasonable and like you know yourself, and you can do better than with this dude.
magdalemon
I was ready to give the dude the benefit of the doubt for being an inconsiderate or clueless dude who likes to talk and think about sex, but him having read extensively on PUA stuff (and I assume not in a "ha ha look at this dumb shit" way) cooled that idea. Either way, this isn't some sort of inherently appropriate behavior. Some people are totally fine with it, and that's cool. But if you're not, and you haven't had a Serious Talk about this, then you should. Not a talk having to do with how he's being inappropriate at the moment but in general: "hey, I'm really not cool with you leering at women in front of me or talking about how much you'd like to have sex with them. Please cut that shit out because it makes me uncomfortable and feel bad about myself." It's not a weird request to make at all and you're not crazy. And I don't think most guys would talk about this stuff openly with their girlfriends (and rightly so), for fear of upsetting them. I can't speak for most guys, but most guys I know don't talk about that stuff with their significant others because it's shitty behavior, not because they're restraining themselves from doing so. It's the difference between not drinking and driving because you (the general "you") know it's a stupid thing to do and why, and not doing it because you're afraid of getting caught: in the latter scenario, the shitty behavior is liable to surface somewhere else because you just never really grasped why what you're doing is inappropriate. Which, giving your boyfriend more benefit of the doubt than he may deserve, might be what's happening here.
griphus
He's playing a sadistic psycho-sexual mindgame on you, and you should RUN. I've got to do something or I would explain more right now. Basically - YES - he's trampling all over your boundaries, his mental landscape is not that common, and he talks about sex in ways that devalues women, generally. He's an asshole playing a game, and you should dump him immediately. I'll be back later, but this is the gist. Good luck.
jbenben
This question makes me so uncomfortable because this is partially how my incredibly abusive relationship started. Like, I possibly could have written this question at your age. I know now that there are so many men in the world who aren't like this and won't make you feel this way. For what it's worth, I don't think you are paranoid, I think you should listen to your intuition here.
Nimmie Amee
P is extremely jealous. He hates it when I spend time with male friends and basically makes no effort to be friendly with them when we're out in a group. If we're at a party and I'm talking to a guy (even if that guy is an old friend, or someone he knows I've previously rejected), he'll walk past and kiss me on the cheek or put his hand on me, as if he's 'laying claim'. He once asked me to take down all the pictures on my Facebook of me with ex-boyfriends (I refused) and we had a huge fight over that. This is a classic red flag for an abusive relationship. The rest of the answers above point to the other red flags. Get out. There is nothing safe and fine about this man.
Capri
Seconding jbenben. Personally, your description of him kind of creeps me out. Honestly, my first instinct was that it sounds like he is some kind of sexual deviant. (I am, however, biased by unfortunate previous experience). ...wants to talk about sex a lot (he tries to 'sext' me most days, talks about past sexual partners, mentions that he finds certain girls attractive, and will, out of the blue and in non-sexual settings, describe his fantasies to me). I know that mental landscape is pretty normal for guys, but it just doesn't seem appropriate for him to communicate those things to me. I would say sexting is in the realm of normal behavior (though he should stop it if you ask him to/aren't into it), but talking about sex with other women in any context is pretty out of line (especially if you have told him more than once how uncomfortable this makes you). It is really hurtful behavior, especially given what you've shared with him about your body image insecurities. And talking about sex a lot and the whole "out of the blue talking about sexual fantasies" - I have been on the receiving end of that kind of behavior and I will say that that part is not normal and your instinct of this being inappropriate is totally correct. (How do I know? The counselor I was seeing to deal with the trauma I endured from this relationship told me so.) From my experience, his behavior and the things he says to you are liable only to get sicker and more twisted and ugly. Please listen to your instinct. You are not crazy or neurotic for being insecure. When a guy starts putting his personal sexual predilections above your sense of well-being, it is NOT a good sign. Think about what that says about his feelings for you - when he is doing all these things in TOTAL DISREGARD of your feelings. And all that PUA shit has likely just given him tips and support in preying on women. (Not to try to cajole you, but read some of that stuff and imagine that is the way that P. views you. I know it's hard to digest, but in all likelihood that is his mindset.) I think he is just using you and it sounds to me like he is preying on your insecurities in an attempt to manipulate you into going along with his sexual fantasies. It sounds sick because it is. sometimes he'll say something that will send me tail-spinning into a very dark place. These feelings with P are all new to me as I'm usually very level-headed I don't like to tell people what to do when giving advice. I respect whatever path the person is going to take and know that it is wholly their choice to make. But I will tell you that, based on my own experiences, that reading this, in my head, the alarm bells are going off and I am yelling to you "run run run!" Please keep in mind that emotional abuse and manipulation tactics are designed to make you feel precisely the way you are feeling. I think it's really brave that you decided to get some second opinions on what is going on in your relationship, and from what you've wrote, you sound like an intelligent and resourceful person. If anything else comes up, please feel free to memail me if you like.
sevenofspades
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