Help me make rye rue the day.
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I wish to be schooled on how rye works in doughs, specifically noodle doughs…more specifically, ramen noodle doughs. I make my own ramen noodles with great frequency, and i've been toying around with different flours of different protein and gluten levels. Lately I've been obsessed with the taste of rye. There's something about its flavor that I can't get enough of in my mouth. I like it in beer, I like it in whiskey, I like it in bread. I want to make something along the lines of a rye-flavored, if not rye-based noodle, but i'm really not sure where to start. I bake a little bread, but not enough to really grok how rye influences the actual construction of a bread, or in this case, noodles. My current, most successful regular old ramen noodles are as follows, 400g bread flour 400g '00' pasta semolina flour 2-10g vital wheat gluten (depending on humidity and the exact flour I have on hand) +/-300g water 12g kansui (potassium carbonate/sodium carbonate mixture) I've tried just exchanging some of the flour for rye (up to about 30%), and the noodles look a little flecked, but they don't have that spicy rye taste. Any substitution beyond that, and the noodles freak out and their texture isn't right (mostly that its a bit crumbly, and there's not enough spring in the noodles). The straight replacement isn't working quite right, and I'm looking for some guidance on how to get more rye into my awesomely inauthentic-white-boy-ramen noodles. Do I need more gluten to replace whats missing from the rye? Does the rye need to be soaked longer or kneaded more or less? Are there any bread-making tricks that tackle rye breads that might translate? How does rye typically interact with a dough, and what methods should I be trying to employ to make a noodle more successful?
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Answer:
I bake bread with rye flour routinely but have never made noodles, but I wonder if you have come across http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/rye-flour. It seems like that advice might translate to noodles.
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Other answers
the noodles freak out and their texture isn't right (mostly that its a bit crumbly, and there's not enough spring in the noodles There is an excellent reason for this. Gluten is the thing that makes bread and noodles, well, bready and noodly. It's actually made of two substances - glutenin, which provides the elasticity and "spring" in bread and noodles, and gliaden, which provides the extensability, ie the stretchability of bread dough and noodles. Rye flour does not have a full gluten profile, it has no glutenin, only gliaden. So rye flour has the strechability, but no elasticity to bring it back or hold it together. This is why your noodles are crumbly and lacking spring. Heavy rye doughs are often described has having a "cake batter"-like texture for the same reason. How do you compensate for this? Well, there's a few different things you can do. 1) Use more white flour. Strong bread flour has a higher gluten profile, it can compensate for the lack of gluten in the rye. 2) Increase the gluten. Your vital wheat gluten can do this, experiment with increasing the ratio of it in your noodles. Be aware (with bread at least, I've no experience with noodles), that increasing the vital wheat gluten will not change a rye flour into a white flour; the texture will still be different. Also, you'll know about it if you use too much, lol, the dough will be very strange. 3) Change your recipe. Rye is not the only flour lacking gluten; indeed there are many. Buckwheat also has no gluten, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soba noodles are delicious and awesome. I would think about experimenting with some soba recipes - the techniques and ratios may be helpful to you, though obviously buckwheat and rye are different flours so it's unlikely to be 1 to 1, especially with the hydration (I believe the rye is likely to be a little thirstier). Best of luck!
smoke
Try adding just a tiny pinch of ground caraway to any recipe you try.
Room 641-A
Ivan Orkin (of famed Ivan's Ramen) has a http://www.wnyc.org/story/ivan-ramens-toasted-rye-noodles/. Note: it has a very tiny percentage of rye (1/3 cup rye to 6 cups wheat) - but it would still be worth testing I think. I wonder if the toasting step affects the amylase mentioned above or if it's just a flavor thing.
O9scar
Oops. The caraway really bring out the rye taste. I bake seedless rye, but without the added caraway it's not quite right.
Room 641-A
First, make sure you're using the right kind of rye flour. There is a big big difference between dark rye flour and other kinds -- dark rye flour is completely unsuitable for most bread recipes and I imagine similarly for noodles, and yet that's what I tend to see in the stores most often. Xeney's reference page is excellent on the differences. smoke -- I have heard differently. As Xeney's page also mentions, rye amylases are a big problem for gluten development, which is if anything more important for noodles than for bread doughs. And the worst part is you can't just add more gluten to compensate, because the rye will actively block gluten formation! Poking around on the Internet, various people recommend some method of http://www.thefreshloaf.com//node/14058/dan-lepard039s-black-pepper-rye. I also know that http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1580082688/metafilter-20/ref=nosim/ likes using rye soakers for instance. These are things you might experiment with.
goingonit
goingonit, both things are true: rye has no glutenin, and is also higher in amylases. Adding gluten does help, in my experience, but you're right that it will not turn a rye flour into a white flour. Additionally, in my experience (with breads, not noodles), heat soaking certainly does change the texture, however, I would not personally say that it improves gluten development, per se. Rather it leaves you with a 'smoother' texture. the dough is more jelly-like when uncooked, and less crumbly/firmer when baked. But you know I think this is a good suggestion, those qualities may work well for OP, on thought, as it's a similar texture I see in soba noodles - in fact, that's exactly what's recommended in this http://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-make-soba-noodles-from-scratch-cooking-lessons-from-the-kitchn-191038.
smoke
Caraway seeds. That's what actually gives rye bread its distinctive flavor, not the rye flour. Add to any recipe for instant rye taste.
fshgrl
Do you know about King Arthur's http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/deli-rye-flavor-4-oz?
MonkeyToes
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