Is it scientific to deny near death experiences (NDE)?
-
After studying numerous books and papers on NDE, I find it difficult to deny. Has any atheist studied NDE in depth and still been able to scientifically deny NDE and the numerous scientific and medical papers published on the topic? Please do not answer from a "fundamental atheist" perspective without making a sensible amount of study. I request you to not answer based on "logical" or "faith based" or naive answers ("oxygen depravation" etc) which have been disproven. Please respect the above and answer only if a) you are an atheist and b) have done substantial study of NDE literature and papers and c) have the credentials to criticize or point out loopholes in the NDE studies. BEFORE you answer, please see and some of the studies mentioned below. I have rewritten this portion of the question because initial few responses appear to be from people who have not read scientific studies / articles on NDE. I am inserting a series of links on some of the studies. Please read these before commenting. Most standard responses from 'believers' (i.e. people who believe NDEs can't be true) give standard hypothesis (NDE is similar to XXX or caused by YYY) which all appear to have been studied in detail and discarded decades ago. So please do read at least some of these studies, the depth of research (over decades on thousands of patients by top notch medical institutions and research teams) before answering. For peer viewed studies on NDE, please see http://iands.org/publications/journal-of-near-death-studies.html Here is a list of some additonal material, including some from the Journal mentioned above, for easy access. http://iands.org/research/important-research-articles/43-dr-pim-van-lommel-md-continuity-of-consciousness.html http://iands.org/research/important-research-articles/41-lancet-study-on-ndes.html http://iands.org/research/important-research-articles/42-dr-peter-fenwick-md-science-and-spirituality.html http://www.near-death.com/experiences/experts06.html http://iands.org/research/important-research-articles/383-rem-intrusion-and-ndes.html http://www.victorzammit.com/evidence/nde.htm http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/Research/Research_Overview_Right.htm of NDERF http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/sartori_study.htm http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/Research/drowning030203.htm http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/Research/incidents_causes_nde.htm http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_07_3_schroter-kunhardt.pdf http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/Research/Berkovich.htm http://pmhatwater.hypermart.net/About/About/About/papers2.html http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinical/departments/psychiatry/sections/cspp/dops/greyson-publications/NDE%2068.pdf http://near-death.com/ Some books worth reading: http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376061142&sr=8-1&keywords=eben+alexander http://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Afterlife-Science-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/0061452572/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1376061268&sr=8-11&keywords=NDE http://www.amazon.com/Near-Death-Experiences-Evidence-Existence-ebook/dp/B00A3MU6H2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1376061268&sr=8-9&keywords=NDE http://www.amazon.com/Dying-To-Be-Me-Journey/dp/1401937519/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376061178&sr=8-1&keywords=dying+to+be+me Thanks.
-
Answer:
From a scientific viewpoint, one must take the stance that anything is possible and nothing can ever be fully ruled out or "denied." In science, beliefs about the world are more or less likely based on what has been observed, however science cannot rule anything out with absolute certainty. Near Death Experiences (NDEs) are a good example of the slippery uncertainty in which science can find itself. Since people generally agree that NDE reports exist, the challenge then is to explain the reports. Are people recalling experiences they actually had? Was the brain in fact active during these times people were supposedly "dead"? Is there a physiological process that can explain the experience and the memory? Does the content of the experience have any relation to what was actually happening at the time, and if so, how did that information enter the NDE content? Subjective experience reports are notoriously difficult to pin down due to the rich opportunity for distortion, misinterpretation, subjective bias, selection bias, and fraud. Such has been the challenge with evaluating ESP reports, for example. NDEs will probably eventually be explained. It should be interesting when they are!
Paul King at Quora Visit the source
Other answers
Not an atheist, but I feel it my obligation to call BS where I see it. The studies commit several fallacies: 1) The anecdote fallacy. That many people have experienced this doesn't change the fact that it is the anecdote fallacy. It hasn't been studied statistically -- how many people get NDE's when they are close to death? Is it 100% or is it just a small but vocal fraction of people? 2) Confirmation bias. Only cases where NDE's were experienced are reported on in depth, whereas cases where the subject was near death but never had an NDE is not well reported. 3) Bandwagon fallacy. They experienced it? Oh, then I should have one, too! Even if I don't actually have one, I can make something up and make it sound good. 4) Composition fallacy -- that a small group or even an individual must be representative of the entire population. Refusing to study it because the dogma of the scientific community says so is unscientific, but so is accepting it without a thorough statistical analysis and having repeatable experiments on a random sample of the population (e.g. not by volunteer, but rather by going to random people who are near death). We'll see if it ends up being good science or if it is relegated to the fate of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_rays and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywater, both of which were picked up on by the scientific community, caused a craze and had lots of prominent researchers doing work on them, then ended up being junk.
Jacob VanWagoner
There is a commonality in the experiences of people with anoxia. This is not surprising. Anoxia is a very odd state for the brain and it would be surprising if it did not have some consequence. This is something that can be studied scientifically. Although it is not safe to do so intentionally. It's not clear whether the reported experiences occurred during the anoxia event, or are false memories constructed after the event. But there is an attempt to explain these experiences as supernatural in origin or evidence of an afterlife. This interpretation seems faith-based and cultural. There is no actual evidence supporting this interpretation. The only "scientific" trial. Parnia's AWARE project, has yet to produce any evidence of reliable out-of-body experience.
Glyn Williams
Here's something for you. In an oxygen deprived state the brain has a certain order it shuts down in to preserve neurons. Let's say your heart stops and it releases various chemical compounds important to jump start the brain. Well, if the situation doesn't get better immediately, ain't no brain got time to retract these compounds. They're too busy conserving oxygen and trying to prevent cell death. It's important to note that some of the mono amines in the brain are normal signal molecules we think of often. Sometimes, however, the brain produces rather exotic chemicals. One of these chemicals would be endogenous dimethyltryptamine. Edit: Because I feel as though I let you off too easy, reading the comments you have under people's comments: You don't actually die when you "die" medically - anyone who's been revived is clinically dead, but brain function is the last thing (other than in certain kinds of organ failure or, well, a brain injury) to be compromised almost without fail - your body would rather you die by heart failure, lungs collapsing, septic shock, etc, you're evolved to protect the brain at all costs. So yeah, they revived people. And what ended up happening was that they dreamed. If you talked about how you saw god after being in a coma, well... people would tell you that you were dreaming. This is pretty much the same. Don't be confused about this. If there was no activity in the brain, you wouldn't be able to bring them back. That's just how it is. So they aren't dead-dead until their neurons don't respond to electrical charges anymore.
Jonathan Leung
See this article a few years ago before these doctors started off a research with skepticism into NDEs.... http://www.topnews.in/health/scientists-set-demystify-near-death-experiences-24490 Now check on the Wikipedia about the lead researcher Sam Parnia...he appears to have been "converted" after doing research and has published two books on NDE!
Anonymous
Wayne Dyer had a person on a recent PBS show (wishes fulfilled) who was describing their NDE. Feeling "overwhelming universal love", "perception of loved ones, even dead", etc. I can say personally I have been through the *exact* same *experience* after not sleeping for 3 days. The experience is subjective and arises from a time of crisis in the mind/body. So what if the experience is common it's a feature of the human machine. Sure, odd experiences happen, there is nothing to deny there. That would be like denying that dreaming happens. What can it prove about life after death? Nothing. Do not project experience during stress to physics facts.
Anonymous
Ultimately, we do not have the scientific equipment or tools to study NDEs. There is no way to externally measure what the brain thinks. We don't have a way to measure what happens during apoxia. Therefore, until we can come up with measurements and experiments, this will have to be a mystery to us.
Esha Parvathi
The hypoxia theory was debunked in a study where not all patients that died had a lack of oxygen in fact there is no physiological explanation yet for NDE experience . Source Sam Parnia. The results of Sam parnia havent been released yet , they are coming out this fall apparently, lack of NDE with an OBE component is apparently a reason for the study so far being unable to get a successful hit on the image above the ceiling as they were in other locations however Sam Parnia said that other things were succesfully verified from the OBE component of their experience.
Hamish Whiting
Related Q & A:
- Has anyone had near death experiences?Best solution by Yahoo! Answers
- What is the magnitude of the electrostatic force each experiences?Best solution by answers.yahoo.com
- Would my chances be better since I have more job experiences?Best solution by Quora
- Why would the USCIS deny my application?Best solution by uscis.gov
- People who know about NDE and how adrenaline works in the body?Best solution by Yahoo! Answers
Just Added Q & A:
- How many active mobile subscribers are there in China?Best solution by Quora
- How to find the right vacation?Best solution by bookit.com
- How To Make Your Own Primer?Best solution by thekrazycouponlady.com
- How do you get the domain & range?Best solution by ChaCha
- How do you open pop up blockers?Best solution by Yahoo! Answers
For every problem there is a solution! Proved by Solucija.
-
Got an issue and looking for advice?
-
Ask Solucija to search every corner of the Web for help.
-
Get workable solutions and helpful tips in a moment.
Just ask Solucija about an issue you face and immediately get a list of ready solutions, answers and tips from other Internet users. We always provide the most suitable and complete answer to your question at the top, along with a few good alternatives below.