Whats the difference between a martial art and a martial sport?

Some people feel that when you commercialize a martial art, like TKD, for the sake of just point fighting, then it takes away from the art of it. When points are introduced, then it's a game, hence a sport because it requires so much training and physical effort and technique. People that train for the sport aspect of it, usually don't train for what might actually be considered self defense and what they learn usually isn't very applicable in the street if need be. BJJ on the other hand, i feel is still a martial art, just because it can be used for both sport and self defense. as far as what fits in to what category, depends mostly on how you intend to train and use it. Pure Korean TKD, to me, is still considered a martial art, but when you get into ATA and stuff like that...then we're talking sport. It's then highly commercialized and promoted as a sport. I know there are people that have something against MMA and the UFC. Yes, it's a sport, but i would consider most of these athletes as martial artists as well, because they may train for more than just to fight. you can be both. like i said, it's how you apply it to your life whether or not it's gonna be a sport or an art. According to purist there's a difference between the 2, but i feel that both are martial arts. it doesn't matter if its for traditional/purist purposes or for sport. it depends on your attitude towards what you're learning and why you're learning it. also, people tend to have their own deffinition and opinion about everything. Just remember to have respect for others and for what they put effort into, and have respect for yourself. you can always learn from some one else. ***this is an edit add on*** if there is such a question about if a "martial sportist" is a "real martial artists"? how about are "martial actors" like bruce lee, chuck norris, let li, jackie chan, samo hung, van damn, etc "real martial artists?"

Edit below --- Combine JV and Judomofo's answers, there you have it. The pure, unadulterated, unbiased-by-30-years-in-karate, truth. Only one thing I'd add. How many MMA, BJJ and TKD martial artists do you hear saying traditional arts should be called martial religion? None. Because it takes a cocky, elitist, selfrighteous attitude to call someone's artform a "sport" with no worth, no history, and no internal aspects. And that's what these "traditionalists" have, this attitude of "my balls are bigger than yours because I practice a 50/50 balance and don't compete". They call others too cocky to be true martial artists. Yet it is very elitist to say that these people who work hard at their arts aren't martial artists at all. It apalls me that the people using this derogatory term train little kids. Elitism goes hand-in-hand with racism and sexism, so do we really want our kids telling other kids that their art isn't real, only my super traditional, non competitive art is? The truth is, to be "traditional", Japanese arts, at the very least, must compete, since competition was the basis of proving that one's techniques were viable in the real world. Miyamoto Musashi fought swordsmen from every school he came across, to test both himself and the school. He broke alot of barriers in his art of swordsmanship, showing many schools too rooted in tradition that efficent, useful maneuvers are worth more than traditional maneuvers, yet many of these artforms have forgotten this lesson. MMA is a way of teaching that lesson once again. And on the topic of MMA and BJJ not teaching internal and traditional aspects, there may be some schools that do not, but the vast majority do teach the religious, traditional, inflective, and soft forms that correlated to the hard, competitive forms. Muay Thai has a religious background devoted to Buddhism, has "kata" (called Ram Muay) that not only helps to hone perfection in techniques, but also imparts zenlike inflection and meditative technique, and also teaches history, both of the artform and of the region and place it came from. But Thai fighters fight, compete, and enter tournaments. Does this mean it's not an artform? I beg to differ with anyone who says it's not. --- Pnisher, as I stated on the other link, no offense to your comments. But reverse the tables for a minute and look at it another way. His website, his battle, is about exclusion, excluding viable martial artists from a term so rooted in our psyche, the words "martial art" and "martial artist", and relegating us to a derogatory term like "sportist"? Seriously, exclusionary comments are how discrimination starts. I am a serious martial artist. I did not devote 16 years of my life, my money, my time, my blood, sweat, cuts, bruises, shinai strikes to my calves and ribs, and the other things I've endured through my life for the arts that I've trained, just to be told by a karateka that I am not a martial artist at all. Worse than that, the assertion that anyone who competres is not a martial artist virtually excludes every artform given to us by Japan, since, by it's very nature, most artforms were competitive, at the least between different dojos of the same style. While it appears that I attacked Last Samurai, in fact, I did not. I attacked his own misusage of the term "martial sport". The other sites which mention the phrase "martial sport", admit that one can be a martial artist and compete in martial sports. http://www.ninelotus.com/sport.html "Martial Art study can easily include Martial Sport, but Martial Sport is not to be confused with Martial Art." The website below goes on to make a very concise statement, connecting martial art, martial sport, and martial science and claiming that you must use all three. http://www.martialartskoncepts.com/html/classes_files/makphilosophy.htm "In order to be competent as a martial artist your skills and experience must encompass all three arenas. While no one art has the answer to all of the questions then it is reasonable to assume that no one training methodology or philosophy holds the answer as well." "A martial sport is the modern interpretation of traditional martial arts i.e. Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Boxing, Jiu-Jitsu, etc." "A martial science is the study of personal combat based upon actual experience, performance under extreme conditions and empirical evidence i.e. JKD, Kali, Bando, etc." As I have already stated, the UFC and MMA competitions are sports, indeed they are. Can't be denied. But the arts I train to go to these competitions and fight in them are as valid as the arts that people train to point spar, or for inner peace, or for self-defense, etc. I still train arts, not sports. I merely compete in sporting events with my arts training. Alot of schools seem to be switching to a seperate but equal style, ie. training traditionally in martial arts but offering seperate, yet equal, training for sports aspects. It is the same in the Muay Thai I train. I know the history of Krabi Krabong and Muay Thai, the religious aspects, I practice meditation, I am an accomplished poet, writer, and philosopher in the realm of eastern and western mythos, especially considering Japanese and Thai forms, an avid reader of the Tao Teh Ching and Chuang Tzu's texts. I am a martial artist, not a martial sportist, though. That is now and will forever be the point that I will refute.

fighting art is an art while sport means compete

Listen to Judomofo (and JV has usually got something good to say too). Saves me having to type it all out myself too. Anyone who says 'Martial Sport not Martial Art' knows deep down inside that they can't fight and they aren't learning to fight. Go learn to fight, it's fun, and your martial sport will trump their martial 'art' any day of the week.

I agree with 'Last Samurai' I think necroth needs someone to play with. dude why don't you leave the guy alone. I've talked to him and read his replies and you are after him, but it looks like you do that to other people as well. What gives with that man. I like UFC and traditional arts so I take no sides. I read his reply before and it was good. I actually came back to read it again and he deleted it because you attacked him with stuff from his website again. I like some of your replies and his, but man why can't everyone just get along. Ha! I'm haven a brew now. It's cool to see both of your outlooks because they are so strong sided. lol you scared last samurai away. your balls must be bigger. lol

Here's an answer that won't be popular: Martial "Arts" leave room for BS teachers and BS schools. Martial "Sports" do not, because you can't talk your way through a competition. I would never trust a non-competitive school except in the gentler arts like Aikido. Even then I'd rather the teacher has some real experience.

TKD is a martial art. BJJ and krav maga and thai boxing are sports. The TKD as practiced in the olympics is a sport actually, but that is different from traditional TKD. a sport is used in professional fight competition and focuses far more on fighting than spiritual development, discipline, forms just for forms sake, etc...

A martial art teaches you how to survive a life or death situation. A martial sport teaches you to compete in a simulated combat arena. The difference between a real life situation and a simulated event are plain. In a sporting event there are rules to make things fair, increase the entertainment value and add structure. There is arena and officials. There are time limits, there are physical boundaries,there are two or more prepared participants. A real life situation is unfair, unexpected, uncontrolled, unbound and potentially fatal. This is not to say that most of the top martial athletes could not defend themselves. They physically have the moves and power. A martial sport could most likely be used in the street depending on the quality of the athletes training.

I will make this a short and easy answer for you rather than a drawn out one. Sport Karate is exactly that, a sport. IT focuses teachhing you more on competition than Art would. Martial Art without the sport focuses more on the whole art and does not usually care about competitions and do not compete in any way. Some schools try a mix and it works and other don't. That is the only differance. One focuses more on teaching you sport competition than the other. * I have more to say now. I don't ever recall reading that by stating that it is a sport makes it any less an art just a differant form of art. MANY Kickboxers are JUST sport karate, BUT they do and are real ma with black belts, they just choose to participate in MA in a more sports competition rather than the old traditional way of just doing kata hour after hour with blocks and punches and never doing or rarely doing any kumite. SO many martial artists become sport martial artists by choice to be more active in fighting, esp full contact. That does not not make it an art still. Just a differant form or art than traditional MA.