College prep vs. honors and college prep vs. AP?

For admission to an Engineering under-graduate program, what core courses must be at AP/Honors levels vs. college-prep, or does it not matter?

  • We are parents of an 8th grader and new to the schooling/college system in the US (we're from India). Our son is interested in eventually being a mechanical engineer. What must be the minimum levels of courses he needs to have to be considered for engineering at good schools (we're hoping Yale). Does he have to take AP/Honors only for Math/Science or is it critical even for English that he take Honors at the least across high school. Any advice is much appreciated.

  • Answer:

    A2A, I don't know much about engineering requirements, but I do know a good deal about the college admissions process, since one daughter has gone through it, and a second is a junior in high school.   Admissions to selective colleges now is so competitive, that I would say that it is best to take every possible AP/Honors course that your child can, so long as he is not being set up to fail in an area of genuine difficulty.   A college like Yale really takes two, or perhaps three types of students. The main type is the kind of student who excels in every academic area, including having very high SAT scores, and also has a very strong resume of extra-curricular activities and social engagement (e.g. volunteering.) The reality is that Yale could reject nearly every student of this type that it accepts, and accept a whole second group that is basically equally qualified. Unless your son falls into one of the other two categories, I would suggest that he needs to have as complete and well-rounded a portfolio of accomplishments as possible.   The second type, which perhaps your son falls into, is to be good in every area, and so exceptional in one area that he or she ranks among the top in the country. For example, a few acquaintances of my daughter's got into Ivy League colleges because they were among the best Nordic skiers in the country in their age group. A school like Dartmouth or Harvard take a few students every year who meet the other criteria, but excel in a specific area like this (and it could be music, or art, or drama, or engineering for that matter--it partly depends on the school, since Yale doesn't have a Nordic team that skill wouldn't matter to them.) Nurturing a great talent with a very high focus on it can work--but only if the talent is truly exceptional.   Finally, selective colleges will take some students who have a really compelling story in some way, and who excel in at least some fashion--like a student who graduates very high in his class from an inner-city private school, and also is a great musician or athlete, even if his SATs are only good, not great.   One thing to consider in all of this, is that there are many colleges are slightly less competitive, but that do a great job of placing their graduates in graduate programs. For example, Carleton College, in Minnesota, actually places a higher number of their students in selective graduate schools, on a percentage basis, than several Ivy League colleges do. It is important to look at the range of options.   But definitely, long answer short, colleges tend to want to see AP/Honors courses from public school candidates. Good luck!

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1) Your kid's an eighth grader. This is definitely way too early to start worrying about college admissions. Better wait a couple years and let him socialize and get used to the American environment. 2) Have dreams about schools, but don't expect to get into them. Having just a huge amount of AP's and high grades and test scores is not enough to get into a top Ivy League school. You need talents, unique abilities, and strong communication skills to be even put in the "maybe" pile. For the last few years, many schools have gone into the situation that they could have admitted an entire other graduating class that would've been perfectly well-fit for the school. There are just so many people applying to schools that it is impossible to accommodate for all of them. 3) Keep your options open about different schools. Your kid's interesting in being a mechanical engineer, so take a look at various engineering schools. Look at schools that offer mechanical engineering degrees. But don't forget that admissions are very difficult everywhere and that it may be necessary to take community college courses after high school. That's totally fine, as those two-three years could be used to get required general education courses out of the way. There are also a bunch of other public state schools that offer perfectly good engineering degrees, such as UC's in California. 4) As for required courses, I would recommended to take physics, calculus, computer science, and possibly chemistry at the AP level or higher. Those courses will come no earlier than sophomore year (second year of high school). It is ridiculous to have freshmen do AP courses, so don't push it on your child to do that for social and mental reasons. If he/she's interested, take a look at local community college courses and see what's interesting to take. Usually they're better than high school courses and can count for credit. But make sure they can be transferred over to the high school before taking them. 5) SAT and ACT tests are just another requirement needed for schools to "filter" out students. Having a 2000 SAT score or a 30 ACT score is totally fine and there's not much use of getting an even higher score unless you really, really want to gloat about an almost-perfect score (which means nothing other than you can take the SAT and is not a measure of smartness). Take a look at the mid-50% scores that people at top-performing schools and see what their scores are; for example, NYU has 1890 - 2180 as their 50% scores. Work hard to get a high enough score, but don't stress too much about it. You will also need SAT II tests for Math and at least one science (preferably physics if majoring in mechanical engineering), and that is where it's almost required to have a near-perfect score. tl;dr: Don't worry about any of this until at least two years after today. Encourage to work hard in school and tests, but don't stress it over. Don't expect to get into top schools and have options open for many other, perfectly good schools.

Sergey Smirnov

If I may - you are parents of an 8th grader. Times change and so will his/her math ability. Plan for any and every college now and then develop an understanding of ability each year. If math is a strong suit aim for AP Math, Science courses. Regardless if college is the future your goal is either IB program or AP Courses with the concept of 2 in 9th grade, 3 in 10th, 5 in 11th and 12th. Colleges are competitive, therefore learn what you can of the PSAT, SAT and ACT programs. Make sure the school has a Mu Alpha Theta Club and be part of everything. If all goes according to your plan you have a chance..yet if your child learns he is not as good at math as you thought, then the above ideas will leave Liberal Arts colleges open for you.

Cade Resnick

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