After graduating a bootcamp program how likely am I to get a job without having a CS degree?
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I have a non-technical degree and I'm seriously considering about joining one of the bootcamp programs. I've read that employment rates upon graduation are quite high but how realistic is it to be chosen by hiring managers if I don't have the background in computer science or a related field?
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Answer:
Disclaimer I co-founded with and and was responsible for authoring and editing virtually all of DBC's curriculum while I was there (among other things). However, I left in August, 2013 and no longer have any formal or informal affiliation with the company whatsoever. Absolutely, positively, do not assume what I've written below is still accurate â make sure you ask DBC and any other programs you're interested in directly! Attending a programming bootcamp is too big a commitment to not be diligent with your research. That said, everything below still reflects my personal ideals as an educator and entrepreneur, and I'm working hard to embody them in my new project (http://codeunion.io) as thoroughly as I embodied them at . If you have any questions about this note or anything below, feel free to email me at and I'll be happy to talk more. :) Original answer I'm Jesse, one of the co-founders of . I'll let the hiring managers speak for themselves: "http://iamexec.com/blog/your-credentials-are-worthless-here" - , CEO of , who hired from our fall cohort "http://dickeyxxx.com/dev-bootcamp" - , then an engineer at , who hired several summer students without CS or engineering degrees "http://I%20am%20chairman%20of%20a%20company%20that%20just%20hired%20a%20wonderful%20candidate%20from%20the%20last%20class%20at%20Dev%20Bootcamp,%20and%20interviewed%20many%20promising%20others." - , chairman of . Now I'll speak for myself. Before co-founding I co-founded and was its CTO for the first two and a half years. In that job and previous ones I've interviewed and hired dozens of engineers and designers. When hiring managers cut people because they don't have an adequate degree it's not because they believe the degree is in itself necessary, at least if they're being honest with themselves. It's because the cost of hiring the wrong person or spending time interviewing the wrong people is so high that even a rough heuristic churning out false negatives is worth it. But the problem isn't the lack of a degree. Say I had no CS degree but did have a portfolio of well-engineered, well-designed, and well-marketed side projects. If those projects were relevant to a company they'd hire me in a hot second. The problem is the uncertainty that the hiring manager faces coupled with the cost of a false positive. Dev Bootcamp and programs like it help reduce the uncertainty. It reduces that uncertainty by making it easier to see the trajectory in a candidate -- "Just look at where I was 9 weeks ago! Imagine where I'll be in 3 months with a little guidance." Companies want to hire hungry, passionate, eager, and coachable engineers at every level. They just want a little proof first. ;)
Jesse Farmer at Quora Visit the source
Other answers
You have a good chance of getting a job without a CS degree! Here's some interesting data from Course Report's https://www.coursereport.com/2015-coding-bootcamp-job-placement-demographics-report, which surveyed over 650 bootcamp grads: Undergraduate Music majors saw the greatest salary jump after attending a bootcamp. Foreign Language majors are most likely to be employed as developers after graduation. In fact, those surveyed reported a post-bootcamp employment rate of 100%. You can check out https://www.coursereport.com/2015-coding-bootcamp-job-placement-demographics-report#Table23 for more insights in this area. Forbes dove into our recent research and found that http://e.customeriomail.com/e/c/eyJlbWFpbF9pZCI6Ik9ETXhNVG9XQ0drQ1pBQUNjd0FXSVpjYUFVX1J0Yk5RRkJoV09RUXdBVzA2TWpRek5UQXpBQT09IiwicG9zaXRpb24iOjEyLCJocmVmIjoiaHR0cDovL2NvdXJzZXJlcG9ydC51czYubGlzdC1tYW5hZ2UuY29tL3RyYWNrL2NsaWNrP3U9YzU2ODI1NWZhYzRkNTMzNGZmYjQ5MWQ1OCZpZD1kMTU4M2IwNjA3JmU9Y2ViMWM0MGU1NiIsImxpbmtfaWQiOjg3ODQwMTd9?token=6c703ac28d660e9ba18f59b13c6c973de52a2f854eacbd0ba0b26bcf3de65a6b.
Alexandria Williams
If you get into and make it all the way through, very likely. The top programs have hiring rates between 85% to 99%. Though there are many companies that care about CS degrees, the programming world is pretty egalitarian and most young-ish programmers (say those under 35) consider themselves self-taught because in a CS program you donât actually learn a lot of the languages that youâll be using in a dev job. CS degrees are mostly about theory, not syntax. When you ask the bootcamp about hiring rates, ask them the following question: What percent of people who started the program and actively looked for a job are now employed. This will help keep it an honest answer. Thereâs also a . Everything from full time roles, apprenticeships, even internships. It mostly depends on how far along you are when you start the process. It will also depend a lot on and if that curriculum is oriented around what hiring companies are looking for. Generally speaking, look for a bootcamp that has a high number of hiring companies that it works with and also has an active career services arm. If thereâs someone on staff who is in charge of getting you a job, youâre probably talking to the right bootcamp. All that being said, there are a bunch of things you can do to help your odds. The first is to . I suggest this for two reasons. First, it will help you figure out if you really love coding, youâre a quick study, and youâll do well in the high speed environment of a bootcamp. The second reason is that you will get the core CS fundamentals and syntax out of the way and be able to focus on exploration and connecting all of the dots once you get to the bootcamp. Feel free to contact me directly at: evan[dot]charles[at]launchacademy[dot]com or @evancharlz to if you have any other questions about what you should look for in a bootcamp, or even just what you should study on your way to becoming a programmer.
Evan Charles
The job opportunities for individuals without CS degrees are most definitely available in todayâs web development market. Employers are typically most interested in a potential employeeâs ability to demonstrate real-world proficiency in the technology stack that they are currently using rather than what he/she has learned while in school. I can only speak from my experience at http://www.codingdojo.com/l/jobcs/quo, where there is a wide diversity of students attending our bootcamps, some who have or are currently working on their CS degrees and many who have no programming experience whatsoever. There are some fantastic developers in the business who are self-taught or have come from a non-technical background, never having stepped foot in a CS classroom. Having a strong portfolio of projects that can demonstrate your skills is a must. Employers want to see what youâve done and be able to interact with it. Spend as much time coding as you can, build projects and upload them to web accessible location so that potential employers can easily find them. Before even extending an invitation for an interview, an employer will most certainly want to see what you have coded so get yourself a GitHub account and upload your code to it, making sure to have a link to the account on your resume.
Jason Taylor
That depends on these factors: Where you are seeking a job. The San Francisco region has very few truly entry level developer jobs (most employers want at least 1 year's experience). There's also been a backlash against bootcamp graduates in the last year; maybe because there are just too many bootcamps, and employers are tired of being flooded with bootcamp grad resumes. I hear that bootcamp grads have better prospects outside of SF/Silicon Valley. What kind of career placement your bootcamp has. I recommend talking to alumni instead of taking the wording of the bootcamp's website at face value. You might find your bootcamp really doesn't have very strong partnerships or hiring agreements, or that support for your job search ends after a certain term, whether or not you found a job. What kind of job you'll accept. I went to a bootcamp wanting to be an entry level software developer--not a customer service agent, a junior product manager, a sales support engineer, and certainly not support staff for the bootcamp--yet those are some of the jobs my fellow grads have taken, hoping to start in the tech industry. How much you fit the tech industry's ideal demographic (young, white, male). It's commendable that many of the bootcamps strive for diversity in their students. It's sickening that the students graduate to an openly biased hiring process, where they're right off the bat assumed less competent based on their age, race, or gender. I do indeed know people with non-technical degrees, and no programming experience beyond their bootcamps, who ended up working as developers. However, it's nowhere near 80-90% of the bootcamp graduates these programs like to claim on their websites.
Anonymous
My name is Ruben and I've co-founded a food startup and been part of a few incubators in London. As a non-technical co-founder, I decided to put my head into it and join http://www.makersacademy.com. The course was super hard and intensive, but I've learnt so much. Being upfront and honest, I now work for Makers Academy and help a lot on placements. What I find is the following: Not everyone will get a job as a developer, because not everyone wants one. Yet, wherever they go afterwards, they're more employable because they now know how to code Of those that want a dev job, 100% of them will get one. It's a matter of willingness to work hard and work hard at finding a job. We help all our students and are placing all those wanting a job within 2-3 months max. of graduation into seriously good companies, with salaries at around £30K/annum Companies have been impressed with the level of our students, and like some other bootcamps, what hiring managers trust is our brand and reputation ... just be sure to chose a bootcamp in your area that has a good reputation This said, it all depends on you at the end of the day. If you really want something, you get it one way or another
Ruben Kostucki
When a recruiter is hiring for a programming position, s/he wants the candidates to know how to code, no matter where they learned it. In hot markets like San Francisco or New York, where the demand for programmers is in some cases bigger than the supply, sources like programming bootcamps are always a good first validation for a next round in a junior position. It is hard to know the exact salaries for graduates from the different programming bootcamps. According to http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-junior-developer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,30.htm, the median salary for a junior developer in San Francisco is $57,500, although there are programming bootcamps like http://hackreactorhttp//www.hackreactor.com/ that say that their average graduates salary is $105,000. http://coursereport/ is very useful to browse and discover short-term courses/bootcamps around the US. There are so many bootcamps, and your decision should be based on your goal. If you want to get a job, then go for a program that helps you get a job even if it is expensive (check if they work with hiring partners, if they offer any kind of guarantee/refund in case you don't get a job as a programmer, and where previous alumni work after graduation, etc.). If you just want to learn more about programming, you will probably be more interested in a course that is affordable and flexible (part-time/online). In addition to asking to your friends and network, it would be useful to try to connect with previous alumni (it is very easy to find students reviews online or in the testimonials section of the Schools' website, and you can also ask the School directly to put you in touch). You should also visit the facilities of the Schools you are interested in order to get a vibe, meet the staff and the instructors (worst case scenario, ask who they are and read their bios). If you are interested in having more decision-making power on the product strategy of the company, I would encourage you to consider the option of learning Product Management as well. I am the CEO of Product School, a 6-week part-time Product Management course for Software Engineers in San Francisco that want to get a job as a Product Manager: http://www.product-school.com/
Carlos González de Villaumbrosia
I remember back to January when I was asking that very question and scouring Quora looking for answers. The short answer is, how much work are you willing to put into it? (Yes I realize my 'answer' is a question) I attended Mobile Makers Academy in March/April of this past year (2015) and found a job two weeks after graduating. That being said, I put in a good 60 hours of coding a week. I asked questions about EVERYTHING. Because I come from a non computer background, I had no idea what a terminal was, I had no idea how computers work, I didn't understand the concept of memory. I think one of the things that coding bootcamps don't say that they should, is that you do have to have a certain skill set to succeed and to get a job. These skills are: tenacity, ability to break down problems into smaller more solve-able problems, ability to communicate, self knowledge (both how you learn best and how you can retain the tons of information that is being thrown at you), and most importantly... ability to work with others. Out of my graduating class, I'd say about half of us got jobs within 2-3 months. I only had to interview at one place, but others have been to 10+ interviews and are still looking. If you have these skills and are willing to fail and fail and fail but then succeed, you'll be fine.
Jennifer Kelley
I work at https://www.startupinstitute.com/?utm_medium=social+&utm_source=quora+&utm_campaign=gbl_quora_051916, and this is a question we get quite a lot.CS degrees are fantastic; they will help you familiarize yourself with the theory that youâll need later on as you advance to a senior developer role. That said, in order to get a role as a junior developer, you need practical experience with modern programming languages, and this is where many CS lectures fall short.One of our hiring partners who has worked with both bootcamp grads and CS grads http://blog.startupinstitute.com/02-24-2016-are-coding-bootcamps-worth-it-john-carmichael/?utm_medium=social+&utm_source=quora+&utm_campaign=gbl_quora_051916 that the learning curve is very similar:âAs a junior developer, it doesnât really matter what education model you went through.A computer science degree gives you a lot of background and a lot of context to lean on, but I have yet to see a college that is teaching modern languages. Youâre not going to have a course in building web apps on Rails in a software engineering degree.From a junior dev perspective, the bootcamp grads and the CS grads have similar learning curves. The difference is that when a recent hire (a junior dev with a CS degree) joined us, he knew nothing about Rails. He had to start from scratch, while another hire coming from Startup Institute at least had experience with Rails. She understands the syntax already. Itâs not hard to learn, but sheâs one step ahead.âAt the end of the day, what works for one aspiring web developer will not work for all. Some are self-motivated and can build skills on their own (http://www.amazon.com/Cracking-Coding-Interview-6th-Edition/dp/0984782850/ref=dp_ob_title_bk is a great resource to start to understand theoretical concepts and technical challenges, and websites such as https://www.codecademy.comand http://www.w3schools.com/offer free online courses).Others prefer to learn in a classroom setting, and among those there are some who can afford to make the investment in a CS degree. For other people, a CS degree might not be a good idea. Many people like yourself who already have a degree under their belt would prefer to build practical skills and enter the job market more quickly. If youâd like to go the bootcamp route, youâll be in good hands; most bootcamps report great career placement statistics for devs with or without CS degrees.I hope this was useful! Please donât hesitate to get in touch if you have any other questions. Contact me at .
Mila Hadzhiracheva
The short answer is a very high probability. Of course what is most important is to focus on obtaining the skills necessary while in the bootcamp. It has been our experience that some students begin to think about the job before concluding the bootcamp, which is certainly to be expected, but it is critical to complete the bootcamp, soak up as much information and coding skills as possible and then pursue employment with vigor. Though there are many jobs in the market, it still requires focus and persistence to obtain that dream job. The bottom line is that it is critical that projects are uploaded to Github/repository and employers can see your code and that your are consistently improving your coding skills over time. Your differentiator is your ability to code demonstrated through your completed projects. I would say it is employer specific as to whether they require a CS degree with the trend moving even more toward not being required given the demand for skilled developers.
William Cunningham
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