What are the fields in IIT [India]?

What will happen if the government forces IIT students to work/stay in India for N years after graduating from an IIT?

  • Let's say that the government thinks that too much brain drain is happening and it forces IIT students at the time of joining to sign a bond that they will work in India for N (say = 2-3) years in government organizations or Indian companies$. Students who want to pursue higher studies abroad must do so after working for (say) 1-2 years in India else they should promise to come back after living abroad for X years. What could be the short and long term effects of all this? Assume that nobody can make the government change their mind once this decision is made, no matter how against it is the rights of citizen. Consider this as a thought experiment. $ This condition can be modified in your answer to its suitable alternative. Final aim is to keep the smart people for more time in India/working for India. There could be alternatives to achieve so via non-coercive methods; but let's forget about them for now.

  • Answer:

    Thanks for asking Anon! Firstly, handles loads of cases very meticulously and the opinions he has voiced are quite accurate. From the perspective of someone who still has a couple of years before getting placed, that is. +1 to it! As for my opinion, essentially I feel it would be a bad policy. Lets see why. Outsourcing Well, the best companies are still gonna be on the lookout for amazing talent. I do expect we'd see interesting levels of outsourcing cropping up. It won't be just Google, Microsoft, Tower, Yahoo that have India offices, but even Facebook, Twitter and others would also open their offices in India just to get us IITians working for them (for the N years we're required to). The above would work if you just needed us to be earning from India and hence paying our Indian taxes as "contribution to the nation". But the inevitable flipside of this, is that the dollar-conversion-rate is gonna cause quite a severe disparity within India between the "outsourcing-class" and the middle-class. And this disparity is going to further cause inflation of things within India because well, there are a lot of people who can suddenly afford things now! Indians for Indian Companies So lets say that that's not the effect we desire. We want Indians to work for Indian companies. Well, most do. I expect those who do get affected, are going to be ones who were particularly passionate about what they want, and are going to get disgruntled with what they end up with. Effect-wise, average salaries are going to take a dip. Indian companies, while they do not pay much, do offer packages of upto 15L or so for IITians. I expect this is to keep competitive with companies generating revenue on a global scale. If you removed say, Microsoft, Google, Tower, Facebook, Twitter, Goldman Sachs, WorldQuant, Barclays from our placements, then I do expect the average salary would drop to below 10L. Then there are also consultants - McKinsey, BCG etc. who I'm quite sure don't come under the "Indian Companies" tag which would also be barred from our placements. Is this good? Well, all I can foresee is a few 100s of disgruntled IITians. Higher Studies Ah. I have personally been dicey on the job vs high studies front myself for the past few months or so. I was discussing with a professor earlier various options such as "working for a while, then studying" etc. He said, "Very difficult. Very very difficult. You will not be able to shift back into academia after working." What if you get a job abroad? I ask him. "Then, it is comparatively easier to join a college there if you're already working there, but you'll have to do it soon. A few years in the industry and there's no turning back." Lets first see why all this happens. Industry is a fast-paced result-oriented machine. You know what you want, you work towards those goals, you achieve them. Research on the other hand, is somewhat comparatively less fast-paced, but then you don't have a clear idea of what the final result that you're aiming at is. Every small improvement you make, every small problem you solve, adds to your standing. Getting into academia requires you to display strong research-oriented mindset. While in undergraduate studies, you are learning the tools of the trade; but after that, you better have research credentials. That's not likely to happen in industry, where things are largely proprietary. So, asking students to first work in India and then go for higher studies... Tut-tut, you might as well be telling them to never take it up. And the truth is, this is going to have the worst effect of all. Almost all of the best professors in IITs have done their PhDs abroad. Quite a lot of them have done their undergrad from IITs. Preventing us from pursuing higher studies would only cause us an even larger dearth of good professors in India. Conclusion I don't see how this is possibly going to be implemented in a manner that effectively brings about "contribution to India". We IITians are very capable of finding loopholes in the system, and this system is sure to have gaping ones. Ironically, one good thing that can come out of all this, is that more people may come to realize that getting admission into a foreign university (with scholarship) for Undergrad is actually better than getting an IIT education. Added to that, the fact that its probably easier to give a good SAT etc. than studying gruelling physics-chemistry-math for the JEE, would prove such a pursuit more worthwhile.

Pradeep George Mathias at Quora Visit the source

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Many students that leave for working in foreign shores do it in MNCs and software companies. However, many (I believe the majority) end up or at least start by working in Gurgaon or Bangalore or Bombay or the like. Only a few get the "dream jobs" in Silicon Valley but we hear about them more because they are sought after, rare and offer high salaries (which seem insane when converted but aren't as huge practically). The media hype does make it seem like every IITian just goes and settles in California but that is really not the case. Now, coming to the real question - what will be the effect if such a bond is placed. I believe it can be done in 4 ways. Case 1 - Must Work in India for N Years (This is also probably not justifiable as its a government institution and also very hard to verify but leaving technical details aside and assuming its done.) It will only effect some of the students but the problem is that these are the mostly the best and most passionate students too. Also, it has a huge effect on the aspirations and dreams of the students. Microsoft and Google might have Indian centres but the dream(I think) is still to work at Redmond or Mountain View(since opportunities/experiences are often better there - from what I've heard/read)The fact is that you will be limiting opportunities (or at least the visible ones that the media loves). On the other hand, Indian companies will get better recruits, and more students(especially those who might end up at Facebook, Google etc) will have incentives to create their own entrepreneurial ventures (since they might not like some of the opportunities they get here). Case 2 - Must Work in Indian Companies for N Years This will be harder to do because defining which companies is pretty hard. Also, this will probably stifle opportunities even more. This would be protested against more fiercely too. This would either lead to a lot of disgruntled IITians in jobs that don't interest or challenge them or pay them what they think they deserve or it might lead to Indian companies pulling up their socks and actually excelling and innovating with the help of a much better (albeit forced and helpless) recruiting pool. Case 3 - Must Work in Government Organizations for N Years Now, in the first few cases a student would probably retain his passion to work/innovate/excel and might end up actually doing awesome stuff for and withing India but I don't think it would happen here too. Of course, it seem counter intuitive since this is the most direct way in which one could help the country but many government offices are traditionally lazy and have too much red tape. While thousands of recruits will enter this system, they will still be too junior and too small a fraction to actually change it instantly. They'll just change and became lazy government officers like everyone. Also, many students would hate the job just because of the salaries which would be much lower. If it does stifle their passion or inspiration they might just get stuck in a rut and stay in that job for the rest of their lives. Ideally, this would actually lead to at least some innovation and betterment in government offices, but a large number of other companies might suffer. Also, this would happen only in the long term (since it takes time to change a centuries old attitude in your starting job). Case 4 - Must Stay in India This has all the previous consequences plus an added problem in which those looking for higher studies are forced to resort to Indian programs. Now, I don't know first hand but from what I've learnt, research in India is not near as good as in the US etc. Also, conducting good and useful research takes years and requires established institutes. It is very hard to change this in a short number of years. Hence, people who wanted to opt for higher studies would probably just go into some random job and get stuck in the job market. I don't think the first couple of scenarios would have much of an effect on how we  view IIT. Yes, the hype would probably reduce but the competition would still be the same since the major outcome wouldn't really change. However, option 3 and 4 would probably stifle the institutes to an extent and it would be very unfortunate. Also, all would hopefully move some of the attention to BITS and IIIT and other very good colleges that end up outside the limelight. Of course, this is hypothetical. If an HRD Minister suggests that some parent might just go and shoot him or something (this is what hype does). (But then no one shot anyone when half the seats were reserved and that probably had a greater influence on these institutes.) Assumption - Not all IITians love their subjects. Many just want the jobs/money/badge. But many are actually passionate.

Ishaan Preet Singh

I'm addressing the first case where IIT graduates are made to stay back in India for some years immediately after graduation. People who wish to work abroad do so for two reasons: Primarily to live abroad (to experience a superior or supposedly superior living environment). Primarily to experience a superior working environment. People from category 2 will enjoy the work they do in India as long as it is exciting enough. With the right beginning, the latter kind of people will create an environment of exciting work which will attract similar kinds of people and keep the work challenging enough for such people to keep joining. The happiness levels of category-1 people depends mainly on their love of the foreign land and whether they are satisfied with leading lifestyles in India similar to what they would have led abroad. For the purposes of this answer, let us assume that they'll be dissatisfied. Essentially, what eventually happens in this case depends on the proportion of people in the two categories.

Vikram Rao

In my opinion, this restriction can be good. Also I assume the question's motivation is derived from the fact that similar restrictions exist in some countries (such as serving military for 1 year before starting service) and even AIIMS- where the students have to work in villages before starting their career. Also since the motivation of the rule would be 'serving the nation' stopping back is doing no service and to stand true to its meaning, it makes no sense to allow working in backyard offices of MNCs. So I'd answer considering working in Indian companies or for the Indian government. Let's analyze the benefits implementing this in IITs will entail: 1) Save IITs from the current flak it receives. 2) Reduce the mad rush for studying engineering from IITs. 3) Some of the best technological minds will work in areas where nation needs technological prowess. 4) In these N years, someone may make up his mind to continue working in India rather than going abroad. Some may start-up boosting India Inc. However some of the clauses which such a move should incorporate would be: Complete Information: It must be revealed to the entrants  (the poor 18-year-olds) before joining. They must know this is an  institute for patriots, not just the talented.  Here to 'serve the nation'. N <  3:  most corporate jobs require student to be prepared for challenges. If eventually the student wants to work in a MNC or abroad, N years later he must be proficient for that level. N > 2 would tend to be counterproductive for the student's skill sets and practice required for the future work. Minimal interference with those willing to do research in India or abroad: Developing technologies is much more difficult than implementing them. It needs two major ingredients- a dedicated, highly capable brain & an intellectually stimulating work environment. Also once you join the industry, it's very difficult to re-enter academia. So it's best if the policy excludes those willing to pursue doctoral studies (PhD) in India or abroad. However since the student has signed for a 'patriotic institution' there maybe some bond asking for returning to India after X years and either join a research or industry position in India. This may have further exceptions like if the student's research work finds applications in Indian industry this be relaxed limiting to helping it be implemented in India through attending conferences. Compensate for the opportunity cost of not accepting a job: It's just right to pay the students at least an equivalent amount of what they would have earned in the industry during these N years. Implementing the policy to such fine details maybe very challenging and there would be sufficient methods to trespass it. Analyzing possible repercussions: 1) Exodus from technology may not be as splendid as it sounds: Many students who were pushed into preparing for IITs by parents would work towards their 'other interests' like sports and try to pursue professions there. Some of these may have been very talented in sciences. However considering India is a developing country, it needs more technological brains than Olympic medals. India has worldwide reputation for producing techies which helps in getting the MNC jobs, outsourced work- largely helping the economy. If India loses its sheen for the best technical brains, there's lots to lose.  2) Improper implementation of clauses would deter brand IIT: Implementing the fourth clause above maybe a problem because of Indian mentality. We love taking others for granted. Love dictating morals to others and expect them to be dutiful. Not just this, we are unsettled by the fact those doing some good are making good fortunes themselves. A reclusive saint serving the masses is the expectation. Such expectations are responsible for the capable ones not fulfilling the expectations. Same with IITs. If talented students continue to come, and the companies are willing to hire them at higher costs than the government is willing to offer for these N years it makes more sense for the student (as a rational citizen, not necessarily a patriot) to choose some other engineering college which can offer him better rewards at the same skill set. Similarly if there is interference with those willing to continue in research, someone dedicated to the field would rather choose another college with lesser restrictions towards modeling their interests. The larger repercussion would be the fees remaining the same, it would lead to widespread exodus from either engineering itself or from IITs to other colleges with nearly the same fees structure but lesser restrictions. The latter assumes the restrictions are imposed in just IITs (since these set of colleges are targeted every single time without realizing even other colleges have similar government benefits). As a result, IIT brand can have a serious downfall if not implemented properly and you'd not get the best brains to 'serve the nation' yet again.  Note: Incentives are always better than regulations, and a better way to achieve benefits of these brains within India would be to have better lucrative and challenging jobs in the desired sectors than legislating students to go there.

Siddharth Bhattacharya

The number of people trying to get in will reduce to a tenth of wherever it stands today. People will figure out that they're better off going to some other good college- Pilani/IIIT/DA-IICT/SRM University...even slightly lesser known private universities and NITs., and then doing a masters from a good US University and getting employment there. At least, for the General Category students, working in a government org. or an Indian company is considered even less desirable than unemployment (*barring of course, a few like ITC, Flipkart, Myntra etc.- some recent startups).   On the other hand, if the restriction is only about staying in India for 1-2 years; and if the student is free to work in an MNC in India (Goog/Amazon/MSFT); in that case most people might not have a problem.

Prashant Bhattacharji

*Assuming question is about undergraduates Important part here is not working/staying in India (nowadays ~ 80-90% us stay anyways) but essentially barring all MNC's from campus placement / removing campus placements ! that will force people to choose CS/ECE/(branch of their choice) in other colleges rather than taking up any branch they can get in IIT's based on JEE rank.

Ninad Paranjape

Brain drain is better than brain down the drain Now that my opinion is clear, lets address this question. First, this "thought experiment" is against the labor laws of India. Any contract that you sign to the effect stated in the question is simply to blow smoke on your ass and has no legal standing. Nobody can take action if you sign the bond, complete your education, ignore it and go abroad anyway. Another argument is that some students are not 18 when they join, so they cannot sign a legal contract. Second, IITians don't do any "nation building". Holding some 9000 odd freshly graduated students for the growth of any country, let alone India is foolish to say the least. Remember that they constitute 0.00225% of the graduating population, and 0.012% of engineering graduates. Sorry to say, but IITs alone dont make a big difference either way. Smartness < Experience + perspective (most of the time, anyway) IITians as freshers are not that great at fiscal policy, infrastructure planning, resource allocation, lawmaking and political reform which our country needs. It is in the best interests of the country if more people go abroad and learn the ways of the world and their experience trickles down to our country, not the exact opposite. Third, its a global economy and we have opened our doors to the world long time ago. There's this little thing called WTO and UN which has made trade between all countries easier. There is nothing "indigenous" and "Made in India" anymore. Almost everything manufactured in India other than ladoos will have licensed tech from other countries, and vice versa. I find this whole argument amusing. Finally, unless the parliament makes up their mind and passes a new law for this (highly unlikely given the political climate) thought experiment will not pan out. I am assuming that it does(I have to answer the question right?) the scenario is simple: Every IITian/student from GoI supported institute should have a "Swades" moment for X years wherein the graduates should work for Indian companies or go to villages and fix water pumps, do a "Three Idiots" and invent desi tech etc etc....useless. Students would choose other colleges, and can pay off their loans much quicker. The faculty will migrate as better pay is offered, and IITs will be reduced to a governing body for JEE. The other answers in the question are short sighted. Its the students who made the IIT brand. Once the students leave, so will the "creamy status" of IITs. *-I try ridiculously hard to stay away from this debate, but if I find another "IIT bashing" item or its related spectrum in my feed, I am going to tear my hair out. So forgive the rant.

Anonymous

Offtopic: companies which recruit IITians must pay the goverment expenses, and they must give grants to support education in India

Kumar Sambhav Manu

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