Agencies or homes for the blind?

Remodeled homes

• QUESTION: I'm in the process of buying my first home and I'm concerned about asbestos becoming damaged and airborne after the remodel. Nothing has been tested yet but I still have concerns. The home was built in the late 50's and the kitchen was remodeled in the 70's or 80's. They installed a new floor over this one. The top vinyl (under the new one) has chipboard as a backer. This was cut and removed at 2 doorways to make room for the transition pieces for the new floor. Both bathrooms (ceramic-type tiles) were gutted and remodeled including sub floor due to some leaky pipes. It has Spintex insulation which is labeled rock wool and a little was replaced during the bathroom remodel. I believe it was DIY-er and not a professional doing the work. I have made a significant commitment both financially and emotionally towards this house, but yet I can not shake this concern about asbestos. I would like something telling me it is ok or not to go forward with the closing. I have read previous posts and questions and understand everything you have explained. I'm confused due to the polarization of opposing views and misinformation on the Internet. What do you think test results would look like? I know you can't tell me anything for sure without tests, but I'm just looking for general guidance. ANSWER: If I'm understanding your question correctly, you are concerned about the potential for lingering asbestos contamination from remodeling activities that were conducted about 20-30+ years ago in the house. Correct? If so, you have nothing to worry about. Even if some asbestos floor tile or insulation was removed without the proper engineering controls, the passage of time and thousands of air changes through the house, plus thousands of cleanings over the years would leave nothing significant behind to be found if the house were to be tested now. Concerns regarding contamination for a recent remodeling project would be valid. The bulk of the exposure occurs for the person conducting the remodeling. Subsequent individuals entering the space within hours/days may be exposed as well from resuspended asbestos dust disturbed by walking through the area, sweeping floors, etc. After years or decades though, I am certain the house will have gone through so many cleaning cycles that it is just not plausible to think that there would be any meaningful residual contamination leftover. My recommendation to you, as it would be to ANY potential home purchaser of a property constructed prior to 1980, would be to require an asbestos building inspection of the home prior to purchase. It is an excellent tool for price negotiation, and helps to discover any real concerns that may be present and identify those associated costs prior to closing. This way you don't get stuck with an unexpected large bill or hurdle to overcome once you own the house and want to do a little remodeling. Usually sellers will not issue credits just because asbestos was found, as it is very common in homes of the 50-70's, but it IS common for them to issue credits if asbestos is found in poor condition. Even if it is found in good condition, at least you are now aware of the potential hazard and know what to avoid in your remodeling activities. The presence of asbestos building materials in a house is not cause for alarm as long as they are intact and in good condition. ---------- FOLLOW-UP ---------- QUESTION: First, I would like to thank you for answering people's questions about this issue. Of all the people I have talked to or articles I have read you have been the most understanding and informative. Some people make you feel ridiculous for being concerned but others can blow it out of proportion. The house was recently remodeled. It just happened to have been remodeled for the first time between now and 1950. I'm tired of speculating how and what materials might have been damaged. The only thing I know for sure was that two strips of vinyl flooring (and the chip board sub floor) was removed to make the transition pieces or thresholds flush with the living area hardwood floors. It may or may not have been pre-1980 vinyl but it could have been. The walls that were taken down in the bathroom were half ceramic tile and half sheetrock with a very suttle texture NOT like that of a popcorn ceiling. The floor was done recently but the bathrooms were done months ago. I'm having a survey done this week, so where i can stop worrying about this. ANSWER: The best way to get your answer would be to have the asbestos inspector collect bulk material samples of remaining floor tile and textured drywall in other areas of the home. It is reasonable to assume that other locations in the house with the same material and date of installation would be representative of what was disturbed during the remodel. From your description, it sounds as if more of those materials should remain elsewhere in the house. Once you have your lab results back regarding those materials, you can put your mind at ease if they are negative, or seek additional testing to determine if there is a resultant contamination problem in the event that those materials are found to be positive for asbestos. If there is no way to collect bulk samples of those materials for analysis, then you have 2 options. 1. Assume that what was disturbed was asbestos-containing and have a thorough cleaning performed. This simply involves wet-wiping all hard horizontal surfaces with wetted rags to remove any settled dust that could contain asbestos, and HEPA vaccuming porous/fabric/carpet materials to remove settlled/embedded dust. After a thorough cleaning the house should be rid of any contamination that may have occured. Even so, from your description it sounds as if the quantity of materials was minimal. Two thresholds would be maybe <10 sq ft of tile, which is quite insignificant. The bathroom sheetrock itself is most likely non-asbestos, but the mudded joints and any textured skim coat may have low concentrations (usually 1 - 2 %). Given the reported small amount of material disturbed, and assuming it did have asbestos, the resultant contamination would not likely have been that bad and a good cleaning as described above would suffice. 2. Test the settled surface dust in these renovation areas and find out analytically how much asbestos contamination is present. The technique would be a TEM microvac. Be forewarned, data interpretation is tricky, and this is a controversial approach. Read some of my past posts on TEM Microvac for details. Stay away from air testing, it is not a good approach to assess contamination concerns. You won't find any airborne fibers anyways, by now it's all settled out and won't be airborne to be detected on air sampling cassettes. The caveat to this approach is that it is very costly, and in the end if you do find asbestos contamination, you will just resort to cleaning as described above in option 1 anyways. Often the cost of thorough testing exceeds the cost of a good cleaning, so it's most economical to just assume the worst and do a good wet-wipe/HEPA-vac cleaning. ---------- FOLLOW-UP ---------- QUESTION: One last post. An update of this situation. I have not closed on this house yet but will in a few days. There is no carpet or fabric in the house yet since I have yet to move in. It has been cleaned several times by people during the remodel. I'm sure it was vacuumed, swept, and mopped after the demo and after all the new materials (tile, new sheetrock, paint, etc.# have made a mess. There is not many horizontal surfaces except for the floor and window sills which probably have been wiped down already. I wanted a test done to give me peace of mind before the move. I have read your previous posts about TEM microvacs and tried to go with that. I totally agree as I have read other articles suggesting the same approach, especially in the case of the World Trade Center/Lower Manhattan. I asked the engineer/scientist at the firm about it and they were just vaguely familiar with it. They said they it would take some time to get the equipment and it was even pricier than air sampling. Now understand, I live in one of the largest cities in my state, which is still not that huge but still a big city. In the yellow pages under asbestos or environmental services, one has 2 choices. One really old dude that works for himself and sounded like he didn't know what he was talking about #too pushy) and a firm that does plenty of work for government, military, DOT, and list many reputable customers and agencies. I went with the latter. They offered the TEM air sampling. I think it is due to the experience with large commercial customers and not very many residential ones. No one where I live seems to be too concerned so they probably don't do very many tests in homes. There are not many if any laws here addressing this matter. I ordered it anyway even though I know it is not the best way to do it. It was either that or no test. I have read your other posts where people had air tests done where microvac sampling would have been better. I guess I did the same thing. I get the results back soon. I know it is not very accurate in this type of situation but will it shed a little light on the situation? When you say a good wet-wipe and vacuuming, do you mean by myself or by professionals? I planned on mopping and wetting down surface areas before the move. I'm sure I over reacted, but I was worried as many people are. You have answered all my questions and explained it very well. I just wanted somebody to tell me why and explain to me why I should or should not worry. You have done that, and I thank you. I hope somebody else can find this forum as useful as I have.

• Answer:

  How did your TEM air sample results come back? All <70 S/cc? If the house was empty and all hardwood flooring (as I assume is the case since you reference no carpet / fabric), and it was cleaned several times since the remodeling, then I would expect such results. Hard surfaces are ideal for cleaning vs. carpet/fabric surfaces, so it's more likely that "general cleaning" procedures would be more effective at removing any potential asbestos dust issues that may hypothetically have been present. Odd that your testing firm said they would need different equipment to take a TEM microvac sample vs. a TEM air sample, because they use the exact same equipment: An air pump & a TEM sample cassette. Nothing is different other than how the sample is collected. For TEM air (NIOSH 7402 method) the cassette is attached to the air pump using tygon (plastic) tubing and allowed to pull air through the cassette for about 2 hours (to pull at least 1,200 Liters of air across the filter). For TEM microvac (ASTM D755 method), the same cassette is used to suction dust off the floor. The cassette is attached to the air pump by tygon tubing, a 10cm by 10cm section of floor is measured and marked out (using tape, or a template), and then the cassette is held at a 45 degree angle to the floor and used to vaccuum any settled surface dust onto the filter. The analysis counts the number of asbestos fibers on the filter, and knowing the area of the floor surface that was vacuumed a calculation of asbestos fibers per square centimeter is calculated. Anyways, the TEM air data should help provide some reassurance that the air in the house is clean, and as long as the floors are visibly clean then I wouldn't worry anymore.