Higher Education: Are there too many students going into Computer Science?

I'm going to go by what I've seen in University and talking around with friends who work in the software, either involved in Finance or pure software development. I think yes, there are too many CS students, who could use their talent for areas in Chemistry, Physics or Mathematics and make really awesome contributions to society. It's too bad really that programming is a well paying and well supported field when it comes to employment. Not too bad because it's bad for society, but because it induces less incentive to pursue other fields. Going past what society supports, I have noticed that a lot of programmers (and CS graduates) are extremely socially awkward and introverted, and being a PC society, there is almost a air of excuse for this lack of social skills, and having to communicate with such people on a daily basis in academia, it's infuriating. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate CS and know how convenient it has made society (I am a direct beneficiary after all). But there's this air of superiority about them that I just don't understand from a human to human point of view. I like talking about Science. I like talking about current affairs. I like having intelligent conversations. What I do *not* like is the typical CS student giving me the air of smugness by unecessarily 'showing off' (It's not showing off; it's just stupid) their knowledge of a certain module of python or object-orientation. Look, dude, did you invent it? No? Then don't act so smug.

People go to college for several reasons. Getting a good job (the definition of which is more often than not, high paying) is one of the most common reasons. Just because passion and interest works for you, it isn't quite right to assume the same for the others as well. The only two possibilities are that your friends who dislike mathematics are not interested in anything else, or they are interested in something else. Assume your friend who doesn't like CS likes to paint. In today's world, not all painters can end up economically successful no matter how good they're at what they do. So may be he is studying CS for earning a livelihood. If there are too many software engineers who write bad code, they will not be hired. There isn't going to be companies functioning with the help of bad coders just because there are plenty available and they'll work for a lower wage. Even if such companies exist, their products will not be successful in the long run. Like I said, people go to college for a plenty of other reasons than just enjoying what you're passionately interested in.

I keep hearing the exact opposite; there aren't enough people to meet the growing demand. My experience interviewing bears that out; almost every tech company I know is hiring. I would be very interested in numbers supporting your claim. Many smart people can learn to write decent code even if they are not very motivated. There are many bad programmers working today. Economics probably does a better job deciding what is important than you. Tenure-track positions anywhere are extremely hard to get; my impression is that we have too many people (trying to) do pure science.

Absolutely not. The reason people go to college is to learn. I'm trying to think of a nice way to say what follows, so forgive me if I fail here. You were not born writing code. While you may have some God-given talent for logical thinking, problem solving, etc., you still had to learn CS. There is a pervasive talent myth in our society, and it has two destructive outcomes. #1 is that people think they'll never be good enough to learn a new skill, so they don't try. #2 is that people think they're better than everyone else when they had advantages that were completely out of their control. It's especially true of programmers on Quora. Yes, you are better than other people at coding. No, there is no unbridgeable gap between you and the non-coders. I was the smart kid in high school. I heard every day how talented I was. That didn't get me anywhere when I graduated from college. I felt threatened when I realized that no matter how good I did on standardized tests, I still had to go out and work my ass off. My confidence was shaken. After decades of hearing how special I was, I wasn't guaranteed anything. Talent is overrated. Regarding the economics parts of your question, no we won't be producing too many software engineers. If they don't succeed in their classes or in their job interviews, they won't get jobs. If they truly aren't able to do it, they won't make it. There are differences between people, and some people are just never going to be good at programming while others naturally excel. You're vastly overestimating the number of people in both groups and the gap between them. EDIT: 's http://www.pgbovine.net/tech-privilege.htm post is a great story about what it takes to be one of the very best programmers, and how damaging it can be to tell people they aren't "naturally" good enough.

It's a problem of supply and demand. CS majors are currently overpaid compared to other engineering professions such as EE - by quite a bit, if you ask me. People are deciding to major in CS to meet this demand. Don't feel bad about it; these opportunists usually major in Business (the most popular major by far in the US) and Finance. See: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/education/edlife/edl-17business-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

In my opinion, it is not a good idea to study Computer Science with little or no passion or interest.  At present, there is a (reasonably) healthy job market for people who: attended a college or university with a top-tier CS department are known in the industry for a significant accomplishment (such as a highly useful open source project or a project developed at a startup) are believed to be "hot commodities" capable of producing something useful However, this may not be true a year or two from now.  There are signs of slowing demand for people with computer science backgrounds.  For example, consolidation leading to layoffs (such as the recent announcement of layoffs by Microsoft after the Nokia acquisition).  Also, some startups are not thought to be as financially viable as they were first thought to be.  Let's not forget the general tone among financial analysts that we are in the midst of a tech bubble (in some areas such as social and mobile). There was a great spike in CS enrollment until the dotcom bubble burst.  Afterwards, a lot of people with CS backgrounds were unable to find work in the computer industry.

You brought up a really good point. I remember reading somewhere that half of comp sci majors never get jobs in their fields after graduation, and simply switch careers. The two things that are important in choosing a career are choosing something you like doing, and something that you are good at. If either one fails you are in deep trouble. Liking something has the additional benefit of making you do even better in the field. If these individuals are only interested in the money, most of them will never get anywhere! Without constants effort, striving and struggling, they will not even get the money that they want. The ones that really shine, are those that love what they are doing! These individuals put in all the time and effort required without breaking a sweat, because they actually want to be there. They should do themselves a favor and go into something else. I think one of the biggest problems here is that people are so stupid, they don't realize that there is money to be made in every single profession! The minute they hear about someone making a good salary, they think it is something magical that comes for free, and only exists to those people, doing that job. And no, we won't produce to many bad programmers, they just simply won't be programmers. If they can't carry the load, they won't be hired, period. If they do manage to get a job, it will not last, both from them leaving at their own frustration, or as a result of pressure from the people in the company due to their lack of progress. Personally, I haven't had it all to rosy. I love what I do, I love this field <3. I'm also pretty skilled in my trade, but I'm having a hard time getting a good placement. I am currently unemployed, and likely to take the first job offer I get. This is a really bad thing actually, as it will likely mean a less than adequate fit, which will cause problems down the road. This is exactly what happened at my last job. Though, everyone's experiences will differ, and some people have it really well. Another point I wanted to mention, is that there are a lot of problems in many of these companies, that I have either worked at or interviewed at. For one, many of them have leaders (managers, whatever) who are not qualified to make the decisions they are making, and they have very bad consequences. Then you have the office politics, and so on... kinda like every other job. You can take a look at my pet project, which I have been working on in my free time here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.matthewjmouellette.snapdat.

I've noticed that even though there are a lot of people with CS degrees, it's still very difficult to find good programmers and engineers.  I don't think the number of people holding CS degrees will water down the market.  It's going to come down to how many people can execute on the needs of the business that will determine the quality of the candidates.

The need for competent programmers, data-scientists, project managers and tech consultants is big, and is likely to stay that way for a while. The issue is the asymmetry between the graduates' skills and the needs of the market. I don't believe that computer science education is a sufficient condition to produce those highly-valued skills employers look for; but it stays almost a necessary condition (except maybe for pure programmers, who sometimes can skip this step and directly work on programming, but they'll never acquire the mathematical foundations to go really deep). Too many people think that getting a degree implies getting a job. Wrong. Getting highly-valued skills you can demonstrate is (not like "I understand this language or this concept" but more something of the effect of "I've worked on project X, using technology Y to achieve Z").