Fake and real Rolex, how does one tell between a good fake and real?

Incognito Rolex?

  • From 1967 until his death, my dad wore a perpetual-movement stainless steel watch that my mother gave him when they got married. He always said it was an "incognito Rolex," and I've recently learned that there might be some truth to that. Watch-loving MeFites, can you help me discover my watch's history and teach me how to change the date on its face? The watch was almost certainly purchased at Zell Brothers Jewelry in Portland, Oregon, in late 1966 or early 1967. In trying to learn more about Turtle watches, I ran across http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=248296 that says Rolex entered the US market in the 60s through a partnership with Zell Bros., in which Zell chose to brand the watches as Turtle rather than use Rolex's name. That user posted the same information to http://uncleaj.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=1158&start=0 a couple of years later. The face says "Turtle Jubilee Chronometre, Duo-Matic 23", and the back is engraved around the outer edge with "SUPREME SWISS QUALITY - STAINLESS STEEL - "O" RING FITTED - WATERPRESSURE TESTED - INCABLOC - SHOCKPROTECTED." I don't have the tools or the gumption to open the case and see what might lurk in the movement. Is anyone familiar with the history of Rolex in the US, particularly their association with Zell Bros.? Bonus for anyone who can tell me how to change the date; with other watches, I've been able to pull the stem out to a secondary stop that changes the date, but this one doesn't seem to do that. Changing the time with the stem through 24 hours doesn't change the date, either. [Note: this watch is well-loved. It could use a new crystal, but I'm not particularly interested in selling it unless there is some voracious market for second-hand unbranded incognito Rolexes with the previous owner's initials and wedding date engraved on the back. Otherwise, I'm gonna wear it myself.]

  • Answer:

    These are not expensive (service on my Rolex recently cost something like 400 bucks) For the quality of the service (replacing lubricants, repairing stretched bands, etc.) I agree, but it is worth acknowledging that this is considerably more than most folks spend for a watch, let alone a service.

catlet at Ask.Metafilter.Com Visit the source

Was this solution helpful to you?

Other answers

If you contact the http://www.nawcc.org/index.php/library-research/research/61-library/larc/298-non-member-reference-requests, they have a research section that can help you with things like this. If you can visit in person, it is free, but for at least $20 they can do an investigation over email if you can send pictures.

procrastination

Very interesting! Can you post a picture? If it looks like the watch that MonkeyToes linked to, my guess is no. My hunch is that Rolex would not have been supplying private-label watches to a regional jeweler by the 1960s. They were an established brand by then, so it wouldn't make sense for anyone involved to obscure Rolex's involvement in such a venture. (Even Rolexes sold by Tiffany and Cartier, with their names on the dial, still were also Rolex-branded.) Nothing else you've written here sounds like a Rolex - very few models (mostly Sea-Dwellers) had engraved casebacks, and I'm not aware of Rolex using any of that language on any of their watches. If you spin the hands 24 hours and the date doesn't change, I think something's broken. Mechanical watches are not cheap to fix, but if you plan on wearing the watch, you'll want to get it serviced anyway. I'm sure it's overdue. At least then you'll know what movement is inside. (FWIW, the movement in the previous post does not look anything like a Rolex movement to me.)

ndg

Sorry, I meant to say, "these are not inexpensive." Talk about your typos!

slkinsey

Have you seen these photos of http://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9886009961/m/2803910957? Seconding the National Watch & Clock suggestion.

MonkeyToes

A few more notes -- perhaps they'll help you narrow down the timeframe. "These companies, Abercrombie & Fitch and Zell Brothers, sold Rolex between 1926 and 1930 and http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=248296 respectively." And this: "The names "Turtle", "Turtle Timer", "Duo-Matic", and "Town and Country" were all registered trademarks of Zell Brothers Inc, Portland OR. They claim the use of "Turtle Timer" from 1935. The first registration was in 1938. http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/zell-brothers-info-facts-wanted-needed-appreciated-whatever-577799.html, and "Town and Country" in 1950. The last trademark filing they did was in 1969 ("Blossom Time"). And: "It's hard to say anything about the watch you've seen...but as far as I know, http://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/zell-brothers-info-facts-wanted-needed-appreciated-whatever-577799.html Duomatic is most often seen on watches by Favre Leuba."

MonkeyToes

I don't think your information is quite right. What I am getting from the referenced forum posts is that Rolex entered the US Pacific Northwest Market in the 1920s (not the 1960s) through a partnership with Zell Brothers. By the time your father bought his watch in the 1960s, the only way it could be one of the Rolex/Zell watches is if it were quite antique when he bought it. By the 1960s, Rolex was firmly established as a status symbol timepiece, and I have a hard time believing any Rolex-made watches were sold unbranded at that time. In fact, on my wrist right now is my grandfather's rose gold bezel Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust that he purchased in the United States in the early 1950s. As ndg points out above, all mechanical watches need regular maintenance and periodic overhauls to function properly. These are not expensive (service on my Rolex recently cost something like 400 bucks). So, really, if you want to know about the watch, you should take it to a reputable, licensed watch repair place. They will crack it open and should be able to tell you everything you want to know.

slkinsey

You likely have a watch without a quick-set date. In which case you just need to keep rotating the hands past midnight over and over to advance the date. http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=72384.

leotrotsky

Related Q & A:

Just Added Q & A:

Find solution

For every problem there is a solution! Proved by Solucija.

  • Got an issue and looking for advice?

  • Ask Solucija to search every corner of the Web for help.

  • Get workable solutions and helpful tips in a moment.

Just ask Solucija about an issue you face and immediately get a list of ready solutions, answers and tips from other Internet users. We always provide the most suitable and complete answer to your question at the top, along with a few good alternatives below.