Have France banned the Burqa?

What other religious things do you think should be banned?

  • Inspired by the discussion on banning burqa, I was wondering about other areas where religious observance and other people's beliefs come into conflict, and where you feel the line should be drawn. For example: Female genital mutilation (uncontroversial to ban) Male circumcision (controversial ; circumcision without consent was -briefly- made illegal in Germany last year on child protection grounds) Burqa/Niqab (ban being debated in UK & others; in force in France) Other public displays of religion (crosses, yamulka/kippa - nominally banned in France) Kosher / Halal meat (afaik not banned anywhere though some animal rights groups want to, citing animal cruelty) eg http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2977086.stm Others

  • Answer:

    Ban on ANY religious symbol at work Free society includes the freedom of companies to impose whatever dresscode they deem suitable for their business. Naturally, a lot of business are keen to not have any religious symbols openly exposed by their staff, especially when dealing with customers. However, this has been fought on religious tolerance grounds: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9136191/Christians-have-no-right-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html The case in question is nonsensical as Christianity doesn't demand followers to wear religious symbols - but for other religions this could be an even bigger issue. Once again, I'm not saying these things should be banned at work everywhere but employers should be able to impose limitation. Whoever is not happy with the house rules can go look for employers tolerant of these items. Dietary requirements and humane treatment of animals Kosher meat is actually at odds with European law. In most countries there is a provision for Jewish populations that allows them, and only them, to slaughter animals as their religion dictates (i.e. cruelly). This is problematic not only because of the obvious reason - that religious people are granted exceptions for rules that the rest of us need to follow - but also because Jews don't eat all animal parts, so guess what happens to the ones they don't eat (hint: it is not thrown away). It turns out the European taxpayers that fund ethical treatment of animals measures with their tax dollar end up eating meat that's a small part unethical because the parts that Jews don't want get thrown in the mix. Further reading: http://rense.com/general33/kok.htm Tax breaks for religions That's a common practice and is viciously opposed by secularists and members of religions that don't get them. Permission to indoctrinate children Religions that are predominant in certain regions get to have their own schools without any control on the curriculum whatsoever. Try teaching, say, an alternative interpretation of the events surrounding WWII to see if you can get away with it so easily.

Stefan Kiryazov at Quora Visit the source

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I honestly never understood why kosher/halal meat should be banned on grounds of cruelty - do people not cook lobster by boiling it alive...?

Anonymous

I think that, as with all 'bans' you really need to have EXTREMELY good, secular, non-prejudicial reasons for the ban.  Banning something merely because it's 'religious' is extremely prejudicial.  Banning something because it's 'annoying' is just WRONG.  What if someone found atheism to be 'annoying'?  Is that justification for banning it?  NO. Adult relationships should be managed according to the rules of informed, empowered, and consenting and very little should interfere with such rules. Children, however, CANNOT CONSENT.  They cannot form informed consent and so we adults must act as their proxy (usually their parents but sometimes, in extreme circumstances, the state must act on their behalf).  This puts a HUGE burden on the adults because it is not sufficient for an adult merely to act as they wish on behalf of a child but must act in the best interest of the child. Let's review some of the suggestions in this light... Female gential mutilation - informed, empowered, consenting adults should be allowed to do basically whatever they want with their genitals.  For Children, I agree, this should be banned - cutting into a human body non-consensually should require the highest level of medical necessity with the highest possible degree of medical ethics in mind.  FGM fails this very basic test. Male genital mutilation- I see no difference between this and FGM.  I refuse to use the euphemism. Burqa/Niqab - the question here (in my mind) is "Is the individual EMPOWERED NOT TO WEAR IT".  If they are being forced into wearing it then it fails the informed, empowered, consent test.  If an adult MAN OR WOMAN wants to wear it, then fine.  CAVEAT: Establishments of business are free to ban clothing that obscures facial features for safety reasons. Public displays of religion - same as previous answer, as long as people are free NOT to display these things then I don't care.  Forcing people to hide their religion (or anything else of that nature) would be a profound evil power of the state.  That goes for being openly gay, openly atheist, openly transgendered, etc.  I embrace our differences. Kosher / Halal meat - unfortunately this isn't about individual people so I don't have a good guideline here.  I do care about animal cruelty and I think it should be minimized but I would look for reasonable scientific data to guide us here. I do believe the state should intervene to the "LEAST POSSIBLE" degree. I strongly suspect we could find Kosher/Halal-compatible ways to slaughter animals that minimize the suffering of the animal to a degree compatible with our best secular methods. I DO NOT think religious groups should be exempted from secular standards when it comes to food or drugs - but we need to make sure that such standards aren't put in place purposefully to harm religious groups [these kinds of slimy tactics have also been used against non-religious groups, I'm opposed to that as well].   And I say this is a very anti-religious person - but my anti-religious stance ends at argument and reasoned discussion. Religious tax-breaks - the special exemptions (in the US Code) for religious tax exempt status need to stop.  They should be subjected to the SAME standards as secular non-profit organisations.

Tony Miller

To answer my own question (hey, it's a survey, OK? So shoot me). FGM. Banned, illegal & punished severely. Obviously. Male cirumcision. Only by consenting adults. Maybe I can be persuaded "coming of age" at 13 counts as "adult" for the purpose of consent, but no-one should permanently damage (multilate) an non-consenting baby. And if your religion relies on non-consent then tough. Burqa. People should be free to wear what they want. So no bans. Other religious symbols (cross, yamulke. etc) free to wear. Kosher / halal meat. Normal aninal cruelty laws apply and not causing suffering to animals in the slaughterhouse. So no kosher / halal meat. Maybe that means some Jews & Muslims will choose to update their deitary laws. Maybe it means they become partial vegetarians while in whichever-country-it-is-I've-just-become-dictator-of. Tax-breaks for religions (thanks ). Nope. Why should other tax-payers subsidize things they do not believe in? Religious segregated Church public (state) schools. Nope.  Once more, tax-payers paying for private religious thing. Keep it in the church or as private (eg after shool) club; then schools are for all citizens, of all religions and secular. (I'm glad of those last two; I was feeling a bit harsh on Jews & Muslims so it's nice to say something to upset Christians too)

Rupert Baines

Jehovah's Witnesses and public preachers There's no need to be polite here, Britain seems obsessed with this at times. We do not need nor like to be constantly pestered with the message of Jesus Christ while we're going about our daily lives and this is coming from a catholic. It is simply a nuisance and not an active use of time, only creating noise, disturbance and lack of comfort for those of other religions or of no religion at all. It may seem harsh but i don't see why society condone preachers in the middle of high streets screaming about how all non-christians will go to hell and burn in fire, and how if you so much as eat a grape from a supermarket without paying for it then our lives will be filled with nothing but sorrow. It's annoying, it's condescending, it can't continue. I have respect for all religions but please keep it in the church. Spreading the word in public in this day and age will not attract people but only put them off going to churches, mosques etc. This whole idea of forcing people into religions and indoctrinating people into our ways of thinking is a public menace, though most people, out of respect, simply will not admit it.

Jason Okundaye

All visual artefacts of religious expression should go in public society. Why pick on the Muslims alone? From the burqa to the Jewish pigtails to the Hindu saffron and vibhuti and sandalwood paste to women's vermilion dots, to Sikh turbans, to priestly robes and habits of all denominations, to internal and external mutilations - to all these vestigial symbols of religious identity that proclaim the association of identity to personal faith. Keep your faith between you and your chosen maker. All religious identity to be globally replaced by expressions or non-expressions of personal self in attire. No logo. If we live without the outward symbols of religious identity we may discover we are not so different after all. And hell yes, tax them like all other institutions. In fact go one step further and ban collection of money by any religious or political organization. The buggers only use it to proselytize and proclaim their superiority over others. How naive I sound. Still, a man can dream, can't he?

Raghu Venkataraman

Ban public displays of atheism. Ok, I don't really believe in banning public displays of atheism, but, I figured I'd throw it out there to make the atheists here proposing banning public religions displays think about it.

Charles Fletcher

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