Can 529 plans be used for overseas education?

Should one roll EE bonds to a 529 plan or rebuy bonds for future education?

  • Estate planning and a large set of EE bonds. Should grandpa cash and rebuy bonds for grandson's college or roll them into 529 plan? My mom just passed away last week and my dad has put me in charge of estate planning. We have a lawyer and we are assessing the value of the estate. I went through a huge stack of EE bonds and the worth is substantial. However, my dad will get hit with the taxes if he cashes them in (they're listed as an "or" between my mom and my dad). My parents (mom esp.) were insistent on the estate go only to me and my son and to ensure the money was spent wisely. I was thinking then that for these bonds (all or majority), they should be used for my son's education (by the way, I am an only child and my son is the only grandchild so no worries on distribution). Should my dad cash them in and buy a new series of bonds for my son to be used for college (or his general future in case of scholarship). or Roll it into a 529 plan. Currently, we have not set one up for him because we are nervous of the education limitation. I did see the benefit that my dad can avoid getting taxed on his bond interest if he does this. Either path would be appreciated and a way to guarantee that our son has his college (or future) established. But I'm not sure what would be best. The rest of the estate would be rolled into a separate retirement account under my name. I want to respect their wishes on not spending the money foolishly or co-mingle with marital assets. My dad is so distraught over my mom that all he cares/repeats is that it goes to me and his grandson (the chances of future children are <1% due to fertility issues so he'll be the only one).

  • Answer:

    go to www.treasurydirect.gov. You can find a form for changing ownership of bonds in various ways. The form you want is PD F 4000 E, REQUEST TO REISSUE UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS. A companion form is PD F 3500 E, CONTINUATION SHEET FOR LISTING SECURITIES. This form allows your dad to remove mom's name as co-owner of the bonds, and add your son's name as co-owner. This way, the bonds are not redeemed, and no tax is payed. Once bonds have been reissued, go to a lawyer and have a trust created, with the bonds held by the trust. Immediate caveat: IANAL, and IANYL, and I am a little shaky on that last step. Check with an estate planner type lawyer for that. I do know about the first part of my suggestion because mrs qurlyjoe and I have just done this with a pile of EE bonds co-owned by mrs q and her mother, who died in January. We just got the reissued bonds back yesterday. Turn-around was just under a month. Basically, you send in the physical bonds, listed on the form, after getting the form signed by a bank officer (not a notary). Instructions come with the form. Easy-peasy. This way, if grandpa dies before grandson goes to college, no problemo. Grandson redeems the bonds as needed, pays taxes on accrued interest at probably low rate.

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by the way, my parents were extremely old school (only CD, bonds, IRAs) and I saw the advantages of doing this instead of risk investments, so I too am a bit nervous about the 529 plan but I want to do the best thing all the way around.

stormpooper

529 plans are very flexible. So I wouldn't worry too much on that end. Even if your son does not go to school the money would be available to you. From the Wiki: With few exceptions, the named beneficiary has no rights to the funds. Most plans even allow you to reclaim the funds for yourself any time you desire, no questions asked. However, if a "non-qualified" withdrawal is made, the earnings portion will be subject to income tax and an additional 10% penalty tax. However you may be fretting the taxes too much. Run some numbers and try to determine the minimum tax effect by spreading the bonds out over two or three years. If your Dad is on Social Security, there may be no taxes due at all depending on other deductions such as interest on real estate and property or state taxes.

Gungho

Also, you can't buy more than $5000 worth of new bonds in a calendar year any more, so grandpa wouldn't be able to sell his and then buy an equivalent batch. Plus, even if he could, the yields on new bonds would be way lower than what the bonds are now getting. Depending on how old the bonds are, some might mature before grandson is old enough for college. Bonds stop earning interest 30 years after purchase. No problem. You still don't have to cash them in. But at that point, the decision would likely rest on how much taxes would be owed on the accrued interest, and thereby lost, compared to how much interest would be "lost" by not reinvesting the net proceeds. As I said in previous post, an estate planner is a good idea at some point in this process. Of course, that costs money, too.

qurlyjoe

Thanks qurlyjoe. Most look like they will mature in 2020/22 so not enough time for college. I just wanted to look into some options for him to 1) get my mom's name off of them (dad is not in good health so I didn't want them to go to probate/to waste) and 2) make him feel good that a huge portion would go to his grandson's college while he was alive, ensuring I didn't blow it. (not that it's a concern but it has been a mantra of his while he's grieving---"your mom said do not blow the money on stupid things." For me, even 1/2 of the bond cashed out/roll over for his college will pay his entire way once something matures by the time he's 18. Even with scholarship options or maybe even seeing if he can earn his way by himself and then after he graduates give him the money as a loan pay out. The rest, I'm just going to put towards retirement. I'm very, very blessed and grateful my dad worked so hard for this money and my mom stocked away everything they owned. I just wish they treated themselves to it. It was always the thorn in my mom's side to the very end. She always wanted to move and travel--dad never did either. Now all he cares about is having me and my son have a future and he's beyond words depressed and giving up. It kills me so all I can think about is honoring their wishes by doing what is right with the money. Thanks for your help. I was looking at the treasury site about rolling them over into a trust and then taking mom's name off of them. Sounds like the best option.

stormpooper

The nice thing about US savings bonds is they are very liquid. You can cash them in any time, and then pay tax on the accrued interest up to that point. Or you could just let them sit, and accrue interest. I'm guessing, from the maturity date range you mention, that the yield on these bonds is in the 4-5% range. Way better than what you'll get from CDs currently, or a regular savings account. Plus, cashing them in now would result in a huge tax hit for your dad. No idea how they'd be invested by a trust, or how to transfer them to a trust. I know what you mean about how they saved but never enjoyed the money. My in-laws were the same way. Good for the wife and me--it's funding our retirement--but sad for them. What made the conversion easy for us is that the bonds were always co-owned by the wife and her mother. When her mother died, we were able to remove her name and add mine as a co-owner. If the ones you've got have just a single owner, that makes it trickier to do what we did. If your father is the sole-owner of the bonds now, you can add you or your son as a co-owner, with no penalty, no cashing in the bonds. On your dad's passing, you could remove his name, again with no penalty or tax paid. If your mother was the owner of the bonds, you could still do this, but it would involve some chicanery, in that technically your mother would have to sign the form.

qurlyjoe

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