How many hours should I study to achieve a near-native standard in Mandarin Chinese?

By the way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL-MriW6Bjw the French guy speaking Chinese that I've mentioned, I 've read somewhere that he worked up to eight hours a day on his Chinese when arrived in China. Listening to him speaking is absolutely amazing!

Could someone please tell me where I can get the HSK vocab lists with English meanings? Skritter.com has them. If you have an iOS device, I cannot recommend it enough. If you don't, I would actually recommend that you get an iOS device so you can use the Skritter app. You can also download the HSK vocabulary lists as Excel spreadsheets http://popupchinese.com/hsk/test. For your stated goal, I think that HSK 6 would be great, but you will probably also need to supplement that with economics-specific vocabulary and terminology.

Hi everyone, Thanks for all the useful advice on this page. To clarify, I am thinking of studying the Chinese economy at Postgrad level. For this I would like to be able to read Chinese Economics research papers. However I don't need to achieve a "near-native" standard if that's not necessary. Lite's post was particulary helpful. Could someone please tell me where I can get the HSK vocab lists with English meanings? Thanks again.

Assuming mastery is at http://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=1217, at your current rate, you'll get there (sorry if my math is off) in 6 to 7 years. So if you double your study time (60 hours a week, which is "full-time" studying of 8-9 hours a day, 7 days a week), you might be able to reach your goal in 3 to 4 years. However, echoing a few sentiments above, and as this blog post on http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2012/06/29/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-fluent-in-chinese points out, it's not the number of hours, but the quality of those hours. Obviously you could study until exhausted, after which you'll get decreasing returns. So there's no point setting a time goal if during most of that time you're not absorbing anything. So just put in as many quality hours as you can afford to, and don't worry about the numbers. Don't forget to get http://www.radiolab.org/2007/may/24/ http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/031023/sleep.shtml, to allow everything to marinate.

I am not fluent, but my understanding of the mandarin language is that it's so full of historical and cultural connotations and context, including ones implied by similar looking or sounding words, that a nominative achieving "near native proficiency" would be a decades - long endeavor if it's really doable at all.

I studied Mandarin for six years at the university and graduate levels, including 2 years of classical Chinese and a semester spent abroad. I can hold a conversation on nearly any topic, within reason (e.g., bicycle or computer repair would be a problem). But because of the way I learned Chinese, many common household words, and lots of other vocabulary that you just don't cover in university courses, I've had to pick up informally. "Near native" is a virtual impossibility and you're not being fair to yourself by setting that as your goal. What my Chinese teacher told me was that Henry Kissinger was basically as fluent of an adult learner of English as can exist, and that if I worked hard and spent a lot of time living in China or Taiwan I could, one day, speak Chinese almost as well as Kissinger speaks English.

http://ask.metafilter.com/237333/How-many-hours-should-I-study-to-achieve-a-nearnative-standard#3440232: "Again, I definitely agree that Level 6 would be an excellent Chinese level, but it would not be "near native standard". I think you get to "near native standard" when natives stop noticing that you're speaking a second language. But as I said in my previous comment, I think that is a bar that eager language learners set for themselves too often." We're on the same page about the definition of "near native standard". But in my opinion, someone who has a perfect accent and speaks effortless only with HSK6 would not be noticed as a second language speaker. I am not talking about eloquent speech, it could be what you would expect from a 16 years old in a day to day situation. http://ask.metafilter.com/237333/How-many-hours-should-I-study-to-achieve-a-nearnative-standard#3440255: "I agree that Chinese grammar is fairly simple, but I would also say that actually Chinese pronunciation is also not difficult (unless you are someone who can't master the concept of tones). However, aiming for near-native level in the way you describe is not realistic. In order to do that, you would need to be able to read and write at least one character system, or two if you want to cover both simplified and traditional characters," Traditional characters aren't hard recognise once you know the their simplification rules. As for Chinese literature, I'm a big fan of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, widely available as modern and abridged with pinyin.

I agree that Chinese grammar is fairly simple, but I would also say that actually Chinese pronunciation is also not difficult (unless you are someone who can't master the concept of tones). However, aiming for near-native level in the way you describe is not realistic. In order to do that, you would need to be able to read and write at least one character system, or two if you want to cover both simplified and traditional characters, you'd need to be able to read scribbly hand-writing, you'd need to know a huge number of cultural references (are you ready to study centuries of Chinese literature, politics, history, etc.?), you'd need to know hundreds if not thousands of idiomatic expressions, and you'd need to be able to understand many different strange accents which abound in China. Practically speaking, what would be realistic to aim for is some degree of "fluency" in terms of having good listening comprehension, decent reading skills, OK writing skills (personally I feel in this day and age writing is less important than speaking and reading), and good speaking skills (fluidity when you speak and a good accent). It's not too realistic even to achieve that level of fluency just from studying. Those who have said you would need to spend some time actually living among the population in-country are correct. Unless you are truly some kind of linguistic savant whose brain is wired totally different from 99.9999% of other people (or whatever). One thing that's missing from the replies here, including mine, is a context, and that's because you didn't mention for what purpose you want to achieve near-native fluency.

The level 6 of the HSK is actually excellent, you must have mistaken the German B2 for the actual CEFR B2. Level 6 is equivalent of the C2 which is according to the wikipedia article you've linked: I am afraid I did not. (so far as I know, there is not a German "B2") While I agree that HSK Level 6 is excellent proficiency, Level 6 on the HSK is generally considered to be a B2 level of proficiency on the CEFR scale. The HSK was revised in 2010 and is considerably easier than the old test. Level 6 on the old test might have closer to a C2. The PRC calls HSK Level 6 on the new test C2, but no one else seems to agree with that. Again, I definitely agree that Level 6 would be an excellent Chinese level, but it would not be "near native standard". I think you get to "near native standard" when natives stop noticing that you're speaking a second language. But as I said in my previous comment, I think that is a bar that eager language learners set for themselves too often. (since you mentioned writing struggles, definitely give Skritter a try. It's done wonders for my writing)