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I don't think "none of your business" translates well into Catholic

  • I'm in the process of applying for an annulment to my marriage in the Catholic church, and am already feeling incredibly violated and offended by what the tribunal wants to know in order to pass judgement. Help me figure out if I want to suck it up and proceed. When I got engaged at 20, my parents were the only ones who cared that it be a proper Catholic wedding - I'm not particularly religious, neither were my fiancee or his family. I think of it more as family tradition than anything spiritually meaningful in my life. But to make my folks happy, we got married in a church. Fast forward about a decade - I've been officially divorced for over 4 years now. It was a dreadful experience I'd just prefer to let go and not think of again. I have zero contact with anyone from that period in my life besides my own family. I've been dating a wonderful guy R for 1.75 years now, we are pretty solid together. He recently converted to Catholicism. He came into the fold via his roommate S and S's circle of friends from the catholic youth organization, who are now dear friends of R's too. Though his friends are very strict religious types, he's a lot more liberal about it, and I agree with his personal views. I actually like going to church with him because it's familiar, friendly, and I find the singing and ritual meditative. He likes that i go with him and am supportive of this aspect of his life. He's still a fair bit more religious than i am, but it's a level I'm comfortable with. I am indignant at the idea of very traditional Catholic values being imposed upon me though, which has resulted in my having issues with his best friend S a few times, and now with this annulment business. R and I see our relationship lasting for the long haul. Knowing he'd like to eventually seal the deal in a Catholic church, I have been looking into getting an annulment. The Catholic church doesn't recognize divorce, if I want to get married in the church again I need to have a tribunal review my case and judge whether they will grant an annulment. To even get the info to begin an annulment, i had to be interviewed by a staff member at the Catholic Family Services Centre so she could decide whether I had a case. She asked every last detail up front and basically gave the impression a) she is holding this in confidence so why should I hold back? that's not helping your case to hold back and b) she might not even let me try unless she was really convinced I would have a solid case. Since I need to prove it was never a real marriage to begin with, I must submit a written testimony of all the sordid details of the marriage. I also have to provide them with my ex's contact info, and 3 consenting witnesses, so they will all be interviewed too. Preferably these witnesses will be from both sides to make a stronger case. It will take 18 months or longer, and they will charge me $800 to cover *part* of the expense. Reading through the application package, the whole process just leaves me sour and offended because it is far more prying than I feel is necessary. Beyond my recounting all the miserable, despairing details of my failed relationship, which will be judged by a tribunal as valid or not. They're even asking for personal information on our present circumstances that I don't feel pertains to the former marriage, so it's none of their beeswax. The other problem is that most of my marriage problems were hidden from others, so no one knew. Witnesses won't really help. It all feels worse than having a room full of strangers peek in on my pelvic exam, it's literally going through the divorce a second time. I feel like if it was just the money, ok. Or just the invasiveness, well maybe. But together it feels insulting, taking advantage, punishing, vengeful for not taking my marriage seriously. Yes I've talked to my bf about this, and he says if it upsets me this much then maybe we shouldn't worry about it. Part of me is relieved because I don't particularly look forward to getting married in the Catholic faith again, especially with his mega-catholic friends possibly getting involved - we've been to at least 10 weddings in the last 2 years heavy on the religion and I've found them all rather uncomfortable. That's a bridge we'd cross when we get there though. I don't really care about having a wedding at all, I've already done that. I'd rather let R decide what he wants to do since it's his first wedding, and he said he wants this option to be open for us when the time comes. It's just not a small thing to ask of me. I react strongly to things I'm morally opposed to, but in some ways this shouldn't be that big of a deal and I know it. I wish I could not care about my privacy being invaded by a bunch of strangers, and their dragging other people into it too. It feels like a sacrifice I should be willing to make for my current bf, to show good will. But I'm very torn and I need your input to decide whether I can actually go through this or not. Am I blowing it out of proportion? Do I suck it up and proceed, and make this sacrifice for my boyfriend? Has anyone gone through the annulment process and can tell me what it was like?

  • Answer:

    Well, I wouldn't do it, because the idea that the church can make a marriage never have happened is one of the most offensive parts of Catholicism, IMO. My (raised very conservative Catholic) parents divorced after 23 years, and probably could have gotten an annulment, because my mom is gay. However, I was very very glad my Dad did not pursue this when he got remarried to my Catholic stepmom. They did what all good Catholics in my hometown do -- they got married by the liberal Methodists down the street, and went right back to their normal parish as a married couple. He plays guitar at Sunday mass, she translates the priest's sermon into Spanish for the Spanish language mass. No one ever says a thing. Unless your boyfriend and his social circle are truly conservative Catholics, I think you should take him at his word. Find another Christian church and design a simple, devout, ecumenical service. If that means his friends have to go to church again on the same day to have communion (a big deal with my extended relatives when we got married without a full mass), oh well. We just smiled sympathetically when people complained and didn't respond.

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You don't want a Catholic wedding, or a wedding at all. Your boyfriend (not, not fiancee!) is currently indicating he doesn't care if you two have a Catholic wedding. Why are you considering preemptively preparing for a wedding that neither of you has a desire to go through with right now? At the very least, this can wait until he actually proposes to you.

saeculorum

First, I think you should get a second opinion (if possible) or ask to speak to someone who's been through the annulment process in your diocese before deciding whether to proceed. How difficult the process is can depend on the diocese. Second, I'm Catholic, and, look, one of the biggest arguments in favor of no-fault (civil) divorce is that it dramatically protects abused women. When women who are victims of abuse can seek a divorce without having to assign fault or go through the fault process, they are more likely to seek the divorce and more likely to get it safely because it doesn't as directly affront a man who's already abusive and controlling. I'm well-aware that there are many divorced-but-not-annulled women in the Catholic Church who can't face an annulment both because it's cruel to force someone to go through that a second time (having gotten up the courage to go through it once!) and because you can't (as far as I'm aware) get an annulment without contacting the ex-spouse as well. Which is to say, as a Catholic, I don't give a rat's ass if someone is divorced. If you are divorced and did not seek an annulment, I assume there is a good reason, and I further assume that if you (or your spouse) are serious enough about your faith to be attending church after going through a divorce (given how rude people can be about the fact that you're divorced), that your reasons are between you and God.

Eyebrows McGee

Just to clarify, an annulment doesn't actually mean the marriage "never happened" in the sense of a memory eraser ray; it means it wasn't valid at its formation, so it didn't exist, in the way an invalid contract wasn't actually a contract. Also, annulments don't render children illegitimate, which is like not even a thing anymore, since just about everything to do with "legitimacy" of children is now a civil matter (inheritance rights, health care rights), and in most places in the U.S. you're on the hook for supporting your children no matter what the status of your relationship with their other parent is. (I can't think of a darn thing that "legitimacy" would matter for in the U.S. Catholic Church anyway, and a quick glance at canon law didn't turn anything up.) Even in really conservative dioceses and even with older priests, it's pretty unusual to hear the language of "legitimacy" used w/r/t children (including those born of adultery), and I've certainly never heard it used w/r/t an annulled marriage. Canon 1137 is the specific canon law citation that says children of putative (apparently valid at the time, but legally invalid for some reason) marriages are legitimate. Illegitimacy used to be a (potential) bar to priesthood (that was routinely given dispensation), but the 1983 code removed this. I was going to joke that it might still matter if you were attempting to inherit the throne of the UK, but of course A CATHOLIC CAN'T because of that whole thing in the first place.

Eyebrows McGee

He already told you that he doesn't want you to worry about it if it's going to be this painful. Moreover, I'm worried that it would be easy to hold it against him in retrospect. So I would tell him how much it's sucking, and why, and get his buy-in on backing out.

ftm

Why are you torturing yourself over something that you don't want, that is not consistent with your religious views, that offends you, and is of unclear value? You don't want traditional Catholic values imposed upon you. Don't pay the church actual money for the privilege of doing just that!

desuetude

That's a bridge we'd cross when we get there though. Honestly, both of you should be aware of that bridge and decide how you're going to cross it now. Talk it out, so that there are no surprises later. You're clearly uncomfortable with a Catholic wedding and marriage and he's clearly looking forward to it, despite him saying it's not a big deal. His friends are clearly expecting a Catholic wedding. He almost surely would like one, seeing as he's more religious than you. Ya'll really need to work this out before getting engaged. As to the annulment proceedings, it sounds like you'll hate and resent it. That's not a good way to start off a marriage.

Brandon Blatcher

(Third, I have a really good story about an annulment after one of the spouses was struck by lightning, if you want to memail me.)

Eyebrows McGee

I would wonder if your bf is going to remain as enamored of Catholicism once he is a bit more distant from the influence of those particular friends. If he is considerably more devout than you are and continues to become more so, this might be a problem. The present efforts by the church, for example to oppose employer provided plans that include birth control, is very out of tune with the thinking of most Catholics. This is very patriarchal and regressive but the piety and power appeals to some men. Just make sure your guy is not turned on by the certainty of all that pontification because it tends to disempower women and you might not like such an unequal relationship after a while. If you have had run-ins with his friends already about this, let it at least give you pause and have a good long discussion with your bf about how much loss of bodily autonomy and judgment you actually believe is right. I went through this as a young woman and the first application ended with the official telling me there was nothing to be done but "pray for a happy death." It struck me as extremely cynical and unfeeling at the time. In the neighboring state, where my fiance lived and his family had some influence, the application was routed by the parish to the bishop's official who handles such canonical matters. He explained that because my first husband had not been baptized (and I had, although not as a Catholic) this was a case of an unequal marriage unrecognized by the church. This was a long time ago, so things might have changed. At least there are certain reasons why a marriage in the Church can be annulled. It's not just a matter of the interviewer assessing the quality of the marriage or something but the need to find a ruling or canon law which justifies the annulment. LIke most things, it probably still matters how far up the chain of command you can go. And like most things, people tend to change over time--if you have found yourself less fond of religion even though you go to Church with him, and he is very gung-ho, that might be a bit of a caution flag because the Catholic Church shows little or no sign of relaxing their views in these matters. Please do take seriously your reaction to the probing questioning of this process. If it is repugnant to you now, you might not really be able to embrace this religious requirement being imposed. Have a serious and full discussion with your bf. Whatever you do, I wish you well and hope you can find a way for both of you to develop in this happy relationship which doesn't at the same time violate your sense of self and of propriety.

Anitanola

My parents were married in the Catholic church, divorced, and met other people who also had been married in the church and subsequently divorced. So, three annulments would have been required in order for my parents to marry my stepparents. They got part-way into the process and were all "hell no," especially because it would have made me and my step-sisters "bastards." My mom and stepdad got married in a Protestant church but knew a priest who was willing to unofficially co-officiate with the pastor. My dad and stepmom got married in a restaurant by a judge but a priest did a reading. My point is that it's not necessarily a binary thing - Catholic involvement or no Catholic involvement. If you're not comfortable with the annulment, but you or your boyfriend want some religious aspect of it, talk to some more liberal priests. It won't be official in the eyes of the Church, but it doesn't seem like that's a priority for either of you.

desjardins

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