Indie programmer or call-center drone? A false dilemma disguised as hope?

I am trying to be frank rather than mean. I work at a place that makes, among other things, a fairly popular android app. Based on your description, it seems pretty unlikely that we would hire you, and further, I doubt that you could be qualified for us to hire you 9 months from now even if you did nothing but write java code for the next nine months. Obviously, you don't need us to hire you to be an indie developer, but think about how hard it will be for a single person with nine months experience to make apps that sell well when he's competing with people like us, who have not only a 10-man android team full of people with years of experience, but marketing people to help make our products known. If you want to make a living selling Android apps, you're going to have to make something great, and you probably don't have the capacity to build the next Angry Birds (who's going to do the art?) or Minecraft (how's your linear algebra?) by yourself with limited experience. This isn't to say I don't think you should try and learn this stuff, you absolutely should give it a try. But thinking you're going to be making a living off it inside a year is pretty much impossibly unlikely, especially with no professional software development experience. I don't know what you mean by "web dev projects". It implies professional software experience of a greater level than when you say you know just enough of a few languages to do console output. Do you know how to use threads, sockets, data structures, graphics frameworks of any sort? I don't know that a call center is a great option either, but you're being ambitious to an almost ridiculous level with your programming goals unless you're really a lot better than you imply. If you were previously a game developer in C++ for windows and wanted to transition to doing Android development and have something salable on the market in 9 months, it'd still be a stretch.

Call center work is not a dead end. 10 years ago, right out of college, I started (as in called them on Thursday for an interview, started Monday) working at a call center doing tech support for minimum wage. Within 6 months I was a supervisor. Within 6 months of that I got a job offer for twice as much for an internal help desk for a large company. 18 months later, moved to desktop support. 18 months later, became a supervisor. 18 months later, desktop client packaging and engineering for 50% more money. 6 months later, took over managing the company's global e-mail infrastructure for 50% more money. I now work from home full time doing this. At each of those positions there were a lot of whiners going on about how it was a dead end job and how they weren't being paid enough to care. None of those people ever did a bit more than they felt they were paid to do, and they never moved up. Many of their positions were eventually off-shored/outsourced/re-outsourced. The friends I made at the first call center job are still my friends and I've brought several of them with me every time I moved up. We take care of each other. Take a job that doesn't make you miserable and do it really well and don't complain. Take on new projects. Things work out. You will have time to study programming while you work or in your free time.

I don't have anything saved up and I'm just able to pay my phone bill through some freelance IT work. Beyond that I am completely dependent on my mom for meals and shelter.... I should be responsible for my expenses and my lifestyle and being back at home is just a pit-stop Yup. Get a job (doesn't have to be a call centre) get out of your depressing home and having to rely on your mother for meals. The satisfaction you will get from being independent once again will trump the more nebulous and far-less-likely-to-materialise benefits from becoming an app developer with enough revenue to live off. Once you're standing on your own two feet - or while you're getting up on them - you can learn your java. I would bet money that the actual downsides of living at home will outweigh the hypothetical downsides of a call centre or other job.

Expect to make very little from apps, at least for a year or several, especially if you do games (the game market is very crowded). The fact that indie games are interesting to make attracts legions of indies (and pros) to make them, and standing out amongst the masses is extremely difficult, and you don't have a million dollar advertising budget (but you will be competing with those that do). The love of games tempts people to hand-wave away the ugly realities, but it's difficult to make money on games even when you're an experienced expert (I know many). The most realistic approach I know is to quickly make a lot of games with a long tail, all of them earning very little, but as more of them accumulate in the market over time, their added paltry incomes adds to something you can barely subsist on. This means designing games that ideally won't feel dated next to the games and game technology of two years from now, so they'll have a longer sales life. Phones are probably one of the better platforms for that, but OTOH you might have trouble tying to keep up with bugfixes when new handsets are released. I think my advice boils down to ignore the temptation of games. Instead, think about things in life that you are an expert in, think about apps that could tap an untapped niche in those areas, and follow those passions in your app making rather than games. Too many other people have the same passion for games, while other areas are still untapped.

I am an independent game developer, and had been doing it professionally for ten years before that. I don't think it's wise to jump into indie games if you expect to be rich. Or even live sustainably for a while (my first game averaged about $5 a week after the initial spike, after months of work). Do it because you love making games. To that end, there are many non-Java options, like Unity, Moai, or Flash. Use them to make lots of little games while you learn to program. Also: Derek Yu's advice on http://makegames.tumblr.com/post/1136623767/finishing-a-game has always been useful.

> With the indie programmer route, I would expect to be out on my own in 6 to 9 months. That may not be helpful. In fact that expectation may come back to bite you. Do you have an exact number in mind for the *minimum* amount you will need to make every month? There's really no way to predict how much you'll make as an indie programmer within 6-9 months, so I'm wondering if the minimum-income approach will be more successful for you. You can start predicting immediately how long you'll be able to survive on your own at a given income level. Also, other things I wonder about:Freelance IT instead of call center workOne or two part-time jobs instead of call center workThat your mom is paying rent is a great thing. If you can find a way to mitigate the interpersonal conflict (maybe changing your habits a little bit, or limiting your exposure to her during stressful times) maybe this would give you the time you need to test the Android route. (As my accountant says, "there are two ways to make money. Earn it and/or save it." :-)) Finally, I hope you'll accept this challenge to find more balance. Yes, you should probably spend a bit more time with your friends. You should probably meet new people (example: other programmers or IT folks). You should probably find other places to hang out when mom gets upset. But really, as smoke says, independence is worth it. There are some situations that will always be accompanied by a low longing feeling of suppressed free will, and living at mom's house seems to be one of those. :-) Good luck!

Thanks for the helpful replies! Long-time lurker, first-time asker here. Also, other things I wonder about: Freelance IT instead of call center work One or two part-time jobs instead of call center work I make a fair amount of money with freelance work. But the security isn't there. So while I can reasonably predict an income that can pay for my rent + expenses for a few months, the uncertainty of what I can scrounge up beyond that is maddening. (And as oblio_one noted, there is that thing about health care, of which I have none.) Part-time jobs haven't panned out. But maybe I haven't looked hard enough. But I am starting to see the logic of just getting a steady job (call-center or otherwise) as the priority. The satisfaction you will get from being independent once again will trump the more nebulous and far-less-likely-to-materialise benefits from becoming an app developer with enough revenue to live off. There are some situations that will always be accompanied by a low longing feeling of suppressed free will, and living at mom's house seems to be one of those. Yup. It's been nice not to feel the pressure of the outside world for some time. But not that nice. I haven't exactly won the lottery here. Time to get back in the game I guess. As for the app development dream, I know that isn't necessarily going to go away just because I'm employed somewhere. And it's not as if by being unemployed now I've been magically prolific because of all this free time I suddenly have.

I'm also just pointing out things that I don't see in your current plan (not criticizing, maybe you already have answers to these): • Why 6 to 9 months? How do you know this? • Do you know that someone will purchase a game or app that you create? Or do you know that several people will purchase these things? • How long will it take you to make one app or game? • How long will it take you to earn enough to support yourself? • Or if someone is paying your rent, will you really be motivated to learn how to do this and then successfully create dozens of games and apps? If you don't have an answer to any of these questions, I think that for now this path is a bit dangerous (how do you even know that you will enjoy making games?) I don't see this in your plan and if you were a friend, I would ask those questions. What about these other routes to get to the same point? I'm just throwing out suggestions as other ways that I've seen people reach similar parts of your goal (e.g. not working in an office, learning a desired skill, etc). One way of getting closer to that point is getting a full time job to do the job (or parts of the job) that you want to eventually be paid independently or through other clients to do. These have obvious advantages (training on the job, experience seeing how clients/customers relate to the final product, making contacts, etc.) You mention that you have a degree in IT- is there reasons that this can't translate to a job if you apply for these jobs? The other possibility is to find out what it takes to get these related jobs (e.g. making games/apps/or whatever). If it is a test that you need to pass and get hired, by then all means...take time off and study 5 days a week/6 hours a day and plan to take the test in so many weeks or months.I've known at least a few pple who changed careers by doing exactly this ...they took a short term hit but got the desired job and it did not hurt them since it was implemented during a short time period. If for some reason these plans are just not doable, then I would recommend taking the call center job. Yes, it is not what you want to do, but it will give you at least a little $ and a chance to interact with others (it sounds like you miss that from your post). Working in the call center, though, is not the end goal. Then on your off time, study...and start building games and apps. Then start testing your plan in steps.Can you build an app? How many hours does it take to do so? How many people purchase it? If you can save up a few months living expenses plus already know the answers to half those questions, then you can jump and try this plan.But right now it seems like their may be holes in your plan (again,there may not be,but I don't see it in the description). But a job with conditions that you don't like can motivate you to create the world including the conditions that you want. If if no one else is paying your bills, the fear of hunger will motivate you to produce something. I also quit a full-time job and consider myself self employed and it has worked out for the last 3 years. However, I had a savings buffer of at least a few months. I learned additional skills at a full-time job and I knew the client liked what I did. I made a point of working hard at least the first few months because I was afraid of going broke. So I am suggesting a similar route...get someone to pay you to learn the skills if possible/make a plan and test it in steps/etc.

Not sure about the programming job market there, but here the pay compared to a call center worker would be starting--starting!--at about twice as much per hour. Call center work is a dead end. Think of your overall career and earning potential. Go out for walks during the day or have lunch with your friends and not so much the binge drinking--it's not binge drinking OR total hermit. Good luck.