What does an online law degree do, exactly?
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What does someone do with a law degree from one of the online unaccredited law schools? Can you pass the bar and practice law? If you represent yourself as a "lawyer" or "counsel" is that illegal? Short story: At lunch today the topic of online law firms came up. Apparently a friend who was hiring, not for a law firm or for an attorney, had been seeing more people sticking these online law degrees on resumes. Okay fine so far, but they had apparently pitched themselves as being able to work as a corporate counsel types. There were several real attorneys present and they seemed to think that: 1. You can't pass the bar or practice law if you went to an unaccredited school. Is this true? If this is the case the degree seems very worthless. 2. Calling yourself an attorney or corporate counsel implies that you have, indeed, passed the bar. Apparently there was an issue where summer associates would put "associate" on their resume, before they passed the bar, and that this broke bar guidelines. Would it be illegal if someone who was not a lawyer, represented themselves as "corporate counsel" and if so what would be the repercussions? 3. Do people use this as sort of a stuffer on a resume, or do people who go to online law schools have something specific in mind? I can see if you were running a small business, having any sort of legal training is better than none, but I can't imagine what job, outside of being a practicing attorney, would benefit for this. I'm not a lawyer, obviously, so please excuse anything that sounds wrong as me miss hearing something. I realize this is a state-by-state thing, but some generalities is what I'm looking for.
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Answer:
1. You can't pass the bar or practice law if you went to an unaccredited school. Is this true? If this is the case the degree seems very worthless. The rules will vary by state. Virginia, example, still allows aspiring attorneys to serve "apprenticeships" under licensed attorneys, then take the bar and become lawyers if they pass. (However, the pass rate for such students is quite low.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_school_in_the_United_States#Unaccredited_schools is the only state I'm aware of that allowed attendees of "unaccredited" law schools to take the bar and call themselves attorneys. 2. Calling yourself an attorney or corporate counsel implies that you have, indeed, passed the bar. Apparently there was an issue where summer associates would put "associate" on their resume, before they passed the bar, and that this broke bar guidelines. Would it be illegal if someone who was not a lawyer, represented themselves as "corporate counsel" and if so what would be the repercussions? Extremely illegal (in most jurisdictions, anyway). In http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.38.htm, for example, it is a felony (scroll down to 38.122). In my state (where I am both a licensed notary and a licensed attorney), I am not even allowed to call myself a "notario" in Spanish, because a notario is something between a notary public and a lawyer in much of Latin America and even the use of the term is deemed to be so confusing as to be potentially fraudulent. In many states (including mine), the state bar may also aggressively sue and pursue civil penalties in addition to any criminal penalties. Unauthorized practice of law often falls under the broad category of fraud crimes, which may prevent you from ever practicing law EVEN IF you fulfill the other requirements legitimately later on. It is not just passing the bar, however. In most states, you must graduate from an accredited law school or otherwise meet the requirements for apprenticeship or education; pass the bar exam; pass the character and fitness examination; AND register with the state bar association, the attorney registration committee, or other similar state body (in most states). EVEN THOUGH I completed the first three of these requirements (always and forever) in my state, if I allow my REGISTRATION as an attorney to lapse, I am not permitted to engage in the practice of law and would be subject to the same penalties as Joe Schmoe off the street who engaged in the unauthorized practice of law. (I may be authorized to practice for a short period in another state while waiting for my authorization in that state to come through, and I may practice under supervision of a licensed attorney even in another state, but I can't even practice law in Indiana without it being the unauthorized practice of law if I'm licensed in Illinois.) A friend of mine who went to unaccredited online law school specifically had in mind better defending himself against his numerous traffic tickets. This seemed a lot more expensive and complicated than just driving the speed limit, but to each his own.
geoff. at Ask.Metafilter.Com Visit the source
Other answers
A JD without a bar admission absolutely can work on legal matters so long as supervised by an admitted lawyer, and not referring to himself as a lawyer or otherwise implying admission. It's routine for law graduates to do so for months, and sometimes years, after leaving school. The world is full of (sad) paralegals who have JDs but no prospect of passing the Bar. Heck, supervision or pro hac vice co-counsel is (technically) the way that even senior attorneys have to practice in jurisdictions where they are not admitted, although you can call yourself a lawyer with appropriate disclaimers about where admitted. I would guess that an UPL (unauthorized practice of law) inquiry board would get exercised about a JD being unaccredited only in a circumstance where the graduate was being used in a way that clients and adversaries reasonably would infer that the graduate was admission-pending, when, in fact, his degree disqualified him from admission in the jurisdiction in question. I agree with you that the resume value of an unaccredited online JD is minimal, although in California if it were get you all the way to taking and passing the Bar (which is indeed possible there), the value would retroactively increase to the clearing price of anyone with a Bar card (which is not zero, although not high).
MattD
Further FYI -- ANYONE willing to pay for it can take the bar exam ... there are actually people, usually non-lawyers, who make a hobby out of trying to pass it in all 50 states. (Why? NO IDEA. I met a guy who'd passed it in 45 states and was studying for Nevada or somewhere. Just because. It was his thing. And apparently there's a group of people who all enjoy doing this.) Passing the bar exam =/= being a lawyer. So, yes, just to be clear: Passing the bar exam does not, in and of itself, make one "a lawyer." (I also left out, I had to be sworn in by the state court and take an oath and so on, in addition to the other requirements I listed above.)
Eyebrows McGee
@John, I can't imagine what good a law degree from an unaccredited law school would do for teaching at an accredited one; the ABA is rather jealous of its accrediting authority and since it examines the credentials of the professors as part of its accrediting process, I can't imagine it would look kindly on that. Every law professor I've known without a law degree has had a Ph.D. from an accredited school, or (in a couple of cases) was a older judge who became a judge before State X required judges to have JDs. (I have no idea if all states now require this or not.) In states with "minor courts" whose judges don't need JDs, those positions are typically either elected or appointed and, in either case, political connections are what matters. Not sure, again, how an unaccredited JD would be useful ... except possibly in campaign literature? But even so, who you know and/or how you campaign would seem to matter considerably more than what you know. @divinemissk, my state (Illinois) does not allow lawyers with degrees from unaccredited law schools to transfer their admission to Illinois; to petition for admission by motion, to wit: each applicant by examination (rule 703) or motion (rule 705) shall have "fulfilled the requirements for and received a first degree in law from a law school approved by the American Bar Association." (http://www.state.il.us/court/SupremeCourt/Rules/Art_VII/artVII.htm#Rule703) So, yeah, I think you're right; I wouldn't think many states would accept "transfer" lawyers without approved degrees.
Eyebrows McGee
Thanks all! I can't imagine that all the online law degrees go to patent attorneys and people working in really niche industries, I'm guessing that most people just realize they're useless and go about their regular careers. Also a special thanks for picking up that I meant to say "licensed attorney" and was using "passing the bar" as shorthand for that. When us non-lawyers hear lawyers make a big deal about passing the bar, we forget there's other qualifications involved. I'm not marking a best answer because in threads where there's so many good replies, it looks weird marking a bunch as best and leaving a few.
geoff.
Ack, there were some horribly worded parts in there. If I had an edit window ...
geoff.
There was an http://www.howardrice.com/7169, in litigation between Gucci and Guess?, to the effect that since Gucci's in-house counsel did not have an active law license with any state bar, communications between Gucci and its unlicensed counsel were not privileged. The district judge later overturned the ruling, but it led many corporations to scrutinize their in-house counsel's credentials more closely.
jayder
I can't pull up the NY rules on my phone but the dude I knew HAD taken the NY bar and passed; he was particularly proud of that one as it's considered a difficult bar exam. I also know Bar-Bri type places have some employees, who are not all JDs, take bar exams over and over to report what's on the tests so they can make their prep materials. So I assume there's some kind of mechanism for people without JDs (or people who've already passed the exam) to waiver for the exam. But regardless, passing the bar exam is a necessary but not sufficient condition to render one an attorney.
Eyebrows McGee
Further FYI -- ANYONE willing to pay for it can take the bar exam I don't think this is right. In NY, for instance, you need to qualify to take the bar exam - see #4 https://www.nybarapply.org/intro.aspx.
Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell
Not all states require corporate counsel to be licensed. The theory goes that the Bar is a way for the state to spend the resources necessary to determine the legal and ethical qualities of a candidate, but corporations are capable of that same degree of outlay, and can take those risks upon themselves if they so desire. Those types of attorneys still cannot file suit, represent the corporation in court, or anything like that, but they are are permitted to give legal advice to the corporation which has hired them.
toomuchpete
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