Buying Used Without No Clues

There are always exceptions - the fabulous Pinto that runs like a champ, the worthless Honda that's a lemon - and the exceptions produce vociferous partisans. Ignore them. Go after statistics from reasonably competent and objective sources - f.ex. Consumer Reports. Basic facts: differences between car brands in reliability are there, but not huge statistically speaking. And cars of recent vintage have gotten pretty reliable. So, if brand A is twice as reliable as brand B - it still may not mean much, if the stats are 1 problem per 1000 vehicles, vs 2 problems per 1000 vehicles. That caveat out of the way, there are still very good reasons to pick one brand versus another - and quite apart from comfort and what you need the car for, and apart from aesthetics and even mileage. And that's how expensive and difficult it is to fix the car - and almost every car needs some kind of fixing at some point. Example: let's say you go for brand A which is twice as reliable as brand B. But brand A is a fairly exotic foreign car - and so there are not many independent mechanics who work on this car, and you're stuck with the thieving dealer (if indeed the dealer is bad), and worse, parts are super expensive, and it's very expensive to fix even simple things and do basic maintenance. So it actually makes sense to buy brand B, because you'll come out way ahead even with worse reliability. Brands. Keeping in mind the above basic facts, the reliability of your choices goes from Honda (best) and Toyota (close, but very good), to Hyundai (reasonable reliability starting in 2004 for the Elantra specifically, and 2006 other models). Honda and Toyota also have tons of independent mechanics, and parts are reasonably cheap. Hyundai is much worse as far as mechanics specializing, but reasonably cheap parts. Value: yes, Hondas are the most reliable, but are way overpriced (used) for the reliability advantage compared to Toyotas - on the other hand, excellent resale value. Hyundai are undervalued (used) compared to their reliability disadvantage, but miserable resale value (though that's slowly changing for recent models starting 2006 or so). Price. Look at edmunds.com for "true market value", input your choices and zip code. This is a decent ballpark figure. As a buyer you are in a stronger position in today's economy compared to sellers. That goes double for dealers. You are in a power position. Don't brandish it like a blunt weapon, but be quietly aware of your power. YOU are in the driver's seat. Have a max price in mind, after you've priced the local market and looked at edmunds.com true value. AND STICK TO IT. Get your car for less, but never for more - especially in this market. Dealers - ignore whatever comes out of their mouths - I treat their statements as funny noises slipping out from between two wrestling worms (their lips). Not that all are crooks, and not that all are ignorant, and not that all are out to hustle you. But you are almost never in a position to tell when that is the case. So why try to do the impossible - read their minds? Ignore their statements. You'll get some kind of limited warranty. You should still have a mechanic check out the car. And you might want to take a friend along, who knows a bit about cars. Check out the VIN, but it's not 100% reliable and can give you a false sense of security. Before you even get so far as a mechanic, perform a basic inspection. Look to see if the car's hood is aligned (space between hood and the rest of the body is even - equal spaces on both sides), and same for the trunk lid - if not, it might mean the car was in a serious accident. Same for spaces around all the doors. Are the tires on one side of the car more worn? Is there an unusual pattern to the wear? The car might be pulling to one side or the frame is misaligned after an accident. Are any of the body panels of a slightly different shade, or otherwise look newer? Might have been replaced after an accident. Is there an unusual smell inside of the car, especially a musty smell? Might have been flooded - avoid. Is there a dried sign of a water-line inside at a height of a few inches off the floor? Flooded. Take a napkin and swab the inside of the exhaust pipe - does it burn oil? Open the engine hood - look up at the underside of the hood - do you see signs of a burn or smoke deposits? Might have blown a gasket or had an engine fire. How does the engine look? All sprayed with old oil deposits? How do the hoses look - are they old and cracked? Check the oil - is it filthy and low? Check the transmission fluid - is it dirty? Are there metallic specs floating in it? If yes, immediately step away from that car - the transmission might be on its last leg. Look under the car - is anything leaking? Drive the car. Pay particular attention to how it starts. Check all the lights and electrical functions - electrical issues can be a bitch and expensive to diagnose and fix. Try out all the speeds in the transmission - does it hesitate? Does it jump when it changes speed? Does it slip? How is the reverse? Transmissions can be very hard and frankly uneconomic to diagnose (opening up can cost a fortune) - so the least issues with the transmission, and you should walk away. Engine - does it whine, hesitate, choke? Don't discount how it looks inside and outside - people who don't care about their car, frequently don't maintain it properly. If it's trashed - avoid. Also avoid modded cars - they might have been raced (applies especially to certain models of Hondas). A newer car (2005 and newer) that's been repainted - very suspicious. In general, since you are looking at newer cars (I think you should allow the 2004 models as well), it is the mileage that matters more. I'd sooner take a one-two year older car, but with 10K-20K fewer miles. In such recent vintage, it is all about miles, miles, miles. Wear = tear, and you can only ameliorate it, but never eliminate with proper maintenance - and you never know how well maintained a car has been... go for the lower miles! Now, once you've selected your car, take it to a mechanic. Pay the $100-$150 for a thorough inspection - ask him to hook up his computer and retrieve any codes that might be stored in your car's computer - that will tell you if there were any major problems and what the codes were. Have him generate a thorough list of all things that need to be worked on, or are flawed - including what he'd charge to fix all the issues. If there are serious problems, of course, look for another car. But even if there are only maintenance issues (new brakes, new hoses, tires, bulb replacements etc.) - you can present that list as a negotiating point to the dealer... either have them drop the price some or fix some of the stuff for free. If you do buy it - keep a sharp eye and a running list of issues during the warranty time, and take advantage of the warranty before it expires. And fear not - there are millions and millions of cars out there. There's easily one that's just perfect for you. Good luck!

Tempting as it might be to avoid a pre-purchase inspection by a mechanic--get one, even if the car's a couple years old.

I'm in no way qualified to gauge the worth of a used car. The best used cars available are ones that are "Certified Pre Owned." They've been well inspected, well maintained, and are low mileage vehicles. They also come with a manufacturer's warranty. For instance, Honda's CPO warranty will cover the car up to 100,000 miles. A CPO car will generally cost more than a comparable private party or used car lot vehicle, but (in my experience as someone who certifies cars at a dealer) we do a pretty thorough job of reconditioning these cars. In my case, our standards are strict since the manufacturer realizes that a CPO vehicle is likely to be someones introduction to the brand and they want to make a good first impression. A CPO car will also usually have the most up-to-date services, recalls, or updates performed on it as part of the reconditioning process. When buying a used car, you'll have to drive it and be able to discern if the steering and ride feels right, if it pulls, and if the smells and sounds of the car are correct. You'll have to be able to examine the exterior and be able to tell from touch and sight if it's been repainted. You'll have to be able to look past the shiny ArmorAll to the real car underneath. When buying a CPO car, that's already been done by a certified technician who signs all of the paperwork and stands by their description of the vehicle as a "good CPO candidate." If I certify a car and a potential buyer or a salesman discovers a faul with the vehicle that would disqualify its certification, that falls back on me. To give you an idea of how strict we are (at Audi, at least), I can deny certification if, in my opinion based on the service history, the car has been in the shop too often. And the warranty will absolutely pay for itself, considering the price difference between "used" and CPO. Can I trust a used car salesman? They're a salesman first, in my experience. They're typically in no way a car expert, technically savvy, or even aware of the functions of the features on the car they're selling. Their job is to make money by selling you a car. When buying a car from ANYBODY it's up to YOU AND ONLY YOU to be an expert on what you're trying to buy. Consumer Reports is your absolute best friend when it comes to this. Is "dealer used" a better idea than "used-car-dealer used" or "classifieds in the paper" used? Yes. Based on my interactions and experiences, a non-brand "used-car-dealer" lot (except CarMax) operates on a superslim overhead and would rather bandaid a car to get it sold than actually fix it. Their warranties aren't very good and they don't typically have highly skilled and trained technicians to address your concerns. Classified ads have good deals if you really know what you're looking for and know how to evaluate a car. I'm feeling overwhelmed, like I don't have enough knowledge to evaluate or to negotiate. Don't worry! At the end of the day, no matter what you pay, the dealership will make a proft and you will drive away with a car. Don't put such a huge emphasis on "getting a deal." Just be aware of how much you're willing to pay for a certain car and try to get as close to that as possible. If you feel like it's too much, look for something else or visit a different dealer. Take you time with a decision. The best thing to do is call all of the Honda/Toyota/Hyundai dealerships in your area, tell them what you want and how much you'll pay for it. Wait about three weeks and someone will call you with the car you're looking for. There's always a salesman who'll want to earn your business. Just remember, they're trying to make X number of sales every month. As long as you can be patient, someone will come around. When I bought a brand new car a few years ago, that's the tactic that I used. I knew what the rock-bottom invoice price was, I knew what features I wanted, and I knew what color I wanted. I made a few visits, took a few test drives in similar cars and called every dealership within 60 miles. The second to last day of the month, a dealership called me and told me that they had traded a car off their lot to get mine. They're more desperate to sell the car than you are to buy it, if you can just be patient.

I have really simple advice: watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByHPW-eo7G4. It's a show from the UK where every episode they buy, restore, and sell a car. While all of their cars are older than what you want, watching enough of them you get the hang of how to buy a good used car, what can go wrong with cars, what it takes to fix this stuff, and you get a look at the selling process. Because a good used car is a complex thing, and it really comes down to how well it was taken care of prior, buying a car from an individual with a full service record is usually your best bet. However, large car dealers---like Toyota---will inspect every used car they buy, usually extremely throughly. I would stay away from used only lots, unless the car is still under the manufactures warranty. As for general car design advice, learn to look at them in a more reductionist way: brake system, engine design, safety features, fit and finish, paint quality. Cars can be deceptively attractive on the surface but can be found to be hiding bad design in the particulars. The Toyota Corolla is a great example. A much loved car on this site, with great gas mileage and so on. But they have drum brakes on the rear. Drum! Like a car from the 70s would. I would assemble a list of desired design elements and attempt to evaluate every car with regard to it. Also, Ford now has reliability on par with the Japanese.

One thing I learned in the process of buying my first car when I was young and dumb: get your financing BEFORE you go to the dealer. Do NOT finance via the dealership. Your local credit union is usually going to be your best bet.

Why not consider a (new) Honda Fit? Not too expensive, can carry lots of stuff, comes with a warranty, and is even fun-to-drive. You can finance longer-term and you'll probably get a much better resale value 4 years from now than anything you buy used. I just can't think of anything that provides a better value-to-cost ratio.

Oh, and I second what rabbitrabbit said. If you can join a local credit union or talk to your bank about financing beforehand, do that. You will most likely receive a much better interest rate from a credit union than a dealership.

This doesn't really answer your question(s) - but my husband and I feel about the same way you do about purchasing a vehicle. It's scary, overwhelming and we really know little about cars and therefore do not feel qualified to purchase a used vehicle. And this is why the past few cars we've purchased have been new. I feel like, although they aren't as financially smart to buy as say a 2 year-old car, purchasing new really equated to purchasing peace of mind for us. However, that said, our vehicles are starting to get old and we know one of these days we'll have to buy another. I think we would consider buying a pre-owned vehicle. BUT, for some reason, I feel less confident about purchasing a used vehicle from an ordinary person than from let's say a dealership that has a section of pre-owned vehicles with warranties attached.

No matter how trustworthy the dealer seems and even if the car is certified pre-owned, get the car inspected by at least one independent mechanic. I had my current station wagon inspected by two different mechanics before I bought it. I thought I wanted to purchase another nice-looking certified pre-owned vehicle from the brand's dealer. The dealership discouraged me from taking the vehicle to a mechanic, emphasizing that it was certified. I took it to a trusted mechanic anyway and he found all sorts of problems that had been hidden. It turned out that the car had been in a serious wreck. The dealership apologized and I took my business elsewhere. The lesson I learned was always get the car you are considering independently inspected.