How to negotiate a lateral salary when everyone wants to cut it?
-
How to negotiate salary when everyone wants to cut it? I'm on the hunt for a new job. I have 16 years experience in the industry and granted, I realize that my current position pays very well and the benfits rock (pension, 401k, over 20 days vacation, flex hours, etc). I'm just tired of the office politics/getting drained here. I am not officially a manager and never officially have been (title) but unofficially I have managed/supervised/mentored associate staff, officially have managed vendor relationships, projects, negotiated quotes, approved invoices, saved $60k in budget spending, etc. So I do have a lot of really good experience that can justify my salary. I wouldn't necessarily say it's the market. When the market was good, I took a huge cut before but that was when I was unemployed and desperate. Then I moved to this job and they gave me my former salary back so I was happy. But within the five years I've been here, I've increased my salary by $20k. As I look for jobs I'm interested in, if they post a salary, or if they respond to my resume, they usually say "I love your experience but we're only paying $20k less than you make now. Will you take that?" And it's like you know, I worked damn hard to get where I have been in 16 years. For YEARS I was significantly underpaid in my industry because I was young and dumb not knowing what the market paid. And then when I finally was paid what I was worth, even after 16 years, it seems that's all people want to pay. I don't even want necessarily more money. Ideally, transfer everything I have to a new job---equal salary, all the benefits, and I would think that a job would be happy to do that. But they're not. Even our sister company asked if I would take $20k less. This position is asking for 7 years experience, I have every qualification and then some, and I've been with the core company for five years. I also don't understand how the core company is non-profit and I make more than the sister company who is for profit yet they want to pay me less and hit me back down to what I made five years ago? It doesn't make sense. So wheter this sister position (which I informed them I am interested in negotiating depending on the benefits but I would hope that five years service with the core company can open up a dialogue) or a different company all together, how can I have these HR people understand that 16 years experience and all I want is the same salary isn't a bad deal? If it is an ideal, "perfect" job where I'll learn a lot, we can take a $5-10k hit but you know, it's the principle of the matter. Why should I keep getting cut? I'm not making over 6 figures. Oh and this position said $20k less but the potential of a 20% bonus. To me potential isn't a guarnatee. Performance of the individual and the company is what makes that 20% so to me, that is unattainable. More like 5-10% so I know I will still feel the 20k salary deduction. Also my salary carries our family. My DH's business fluctuates so much that I'm the stable breadwinner with a child. My "extra" of having a salary I'm pleased with carries us when my DH's clients bail or his business funds are tied up. So there's a personal reason why I just want to stay where I am with the money.
-
Answer:
A couple ideas, depending on the most important things that you want out of this (it sounds like the $ or equivalent). If they post a salary, or if they respond to my resume, they usually say "I love your experience but we're only paying $20k less than you make now. Will you take that?"â âIâm willing to negotiate.â OP, would you be willing to negotiate other things? So when it comes down to the offer (and if they say in advance the salary limitations), ask for a few weeks more vacation than you have now, or whatever number may be equal to just a few K at least. The other thing that you can do isâ¦.when it comes time for the offer, be really excited and say, â I still have a hard time compromising the pay cut, and need a few days to think about itâ followed by silence from you. Iâve talked to a few pple offering jobs in the past and at that moment, they will throw in a few more K (a few K, not 20K, but whatever). Also, I have a friend who is a really good/tough negotiator. She will ask for more, and then respectfully decline. One potential job came back to her 2 to 3 times, until they did go up to a salary that she found acceptable. If you have a job now with the salary and conditions that you want, you can wait it out. Also, because you may be in a situation where you need pple/companies that pay your rate, see if your library has a list of companies that do what you do. Then narrow it down by location. Now email or call all those people. If you are looking at 10 to 15 places, and get competing job offers, then you can really negotiate. This may be restricted by your location (are there a few companies? Lots of companies?) I also really differ on some of the opinions thrown around in this thread. Yes, be careful about getting obsessed about the $ because it can lead to bitterness and being unhappy. However, just because 10% or whatever are unemployed does not depreciate your worth or your value. I find it disturbing, though, that because the economy has some blips that now the employees are depreciating their self worth --you don't need to do this. Some companies are focusing on "the cheapest", but if you have a specialized skill set...seriously, go for it.
stormpooper at Ask.Metafilter.Com Visit the source
Other answers
I was a "lead interviewer" at Dell for several years. I interviewed several hundred applicants, because I was good at it, most managers are not, and I actually kind of like it. What irritated me to no end was HR trying to lowball potential hires. "We can get this guy for $xxx, blah blah blah). It messed up my ability to pay my employees and to give them raises. If I hire "this guy" at $20K less than my other employees, he's going to figure it out and expect to come up to at least parity very quickly, which limited my ability to give appropriate raises to my other employees. Just something to think about. Also, the market isn't that bad, not for educated people, take a look at the actual stats, not just what your friends and the media say. The "current situation" is vastly overblown, mostly by HR and those who aren't up to snuff. Interviewers, hiring managers, everyone respects someone who knows they are worth and isn't shy about demanding the proper pay. Lastly, one other piece of advice. Once they've decided to hire you, you are *not* going to make them mad by negotiating. For one thing, it is probably a different department doing the negotiating, for another, it is totally normal, reasonable and acceptable. The absolute worst thing you can do is to accept a lowball offer with a promise of a review in x months. You'll (rightly) be perceived as a sucker. You'll never get that raise, and you'll start many thousands of dollars behind people that know this truth.
Invoke
I am very late to this party (and actually stumbled on this from another search), but here's three pieces of advice from my experience in the recent job market: 1. The fact you have a job really IS a benefit, because you have a fallback position should the negotiations fall apart. Yes, the current job sucks, but you never tell the new job that. Ever. Not even during the "why are you looking?" round of questioning. 2. There's no such thing as a lateral move. Seriously. I thought any job change was going to give me a pay cut, but then it hit me that the reason why I was making so much more than others in "my position" was because of experience, and that experience made me more than qualified for moving UP the chain. In fact, I found out one reason I wasn't getting offers is because the companies thought I was applying for jobs that were beneath me. In summary, don't apply for your current job. Apply for the next one higher on the ladder. You're perfectly qualified, and they'll give you a raise. 3. Do NOT ask for less than what you'll actually take. Ever. No, ask for MORE. Like others have said, they want to lowball you so they can save money. Instead, throw out the most reasonable ridiculous number you can think of. My counter-offer in a job negotiation was well above what someone in my position should be making. But it was back to #1: I had a job, and if this failed the worst that could happen was that I'd still get paid by the current job. The company called back with a "you're breaking the bank but we can offer you this," which was lower than the ridiculous number but much higher than their first offer. So: Do not forget you DO have an advantage (you have a pension, 20 days vacation, and a PAYCHECK in the current position). Avoid applying for the exact same job elsewhere, since they're looking for someone with half your experience and want to pay as such. And do NOT EVER EVER ask for less than what you'll actually take. So when they say "oh, all we can offer is ($current_salary - 20000)," then say, "Well, I won't take less than ($current_salary * 1.1)." Or 1.2. Whatever feels more ridiculous without being ludicrous. Because both of you are lying. They're lying that they don't have more money, and you're lying that you won't take less than that obscene number. And both of you know that. So then the fun starts. And if they aren't lying about how much they have, then they're either extreme cheapskates or they're a non-for-profit. If it's the latter, then it's up to you whether you believe in their work enough to join. If it's the former, trust me, you never want to work for them, because they'll lowball everything. Either way, thank them politely for the offer but say you must decline and you wish them the best. Because you need to get paid for what you do. I know it's a month out from the original question, but I hope this can help you in the future (or maybe even the present).
dw
It sounds like you're willing to walk away from these job offers if they pay isn't right, and to me is the critical part of negotiating a salary. I don't believe that you can only bluff your way to a higher salary (at least, I can't) because if they call your bluff and you take the job anyway, then they know you were bluffing and any future requests (for vacation, flex time, etc) will be met with skepticism. I will bluff when negotiating small things like tickets or a hotel stay, but not for a job. I never got all of those negotiating-jitsu tips. But here's the simple tactic I used to get a higher salary at the depths of the reception. First, I was willing to walk away from the offer. I was not so desperate to leave that I would take any offer - other people wanted my skills, and I was willing to wait for an offer that reflected my value. Second, as soon as they asked about salary requirements, I told them the truth: I told them (approximately) what I was making, and told them that I wasn't interested in taking the job unless I got more money (I blamed this on cost-of-living differences, but really I was underpaid). That way, when I came in for the interview, they saw me through the lens of "This guy wants X salary," rather than through the lens of "we can lowball this guy." So when they decided whether to make an offer, they evaluated me as an employee at $X salary, not $X-20K salary. My current employer decided I was worth $X salary and made the offer, which I accepted. So your strategy is simple. Decide what an acceptable salary is to you right now. Sounds like you've already done that - you want at least your current salary of $Y. As soon as they ask about salary requirements, be honest - you aren't willing to take a pay cut (don't say 'not a penny less,' that's ridiculous. But be straightforward about your desires and your worth.) and you want flex time. Preferably this will happen before the interview. When they decide whether to offer you the job, the'll make that decision based on you getting paid $Y, not $Y-20K. So if they do send a job offer, it's likely to be close to $Y, and if it isn't then you can reiterate your commitment to $Y and move on to the next interview if they don't send you a good second offer. Finally, you need to remember an important lesson that Ramit Seti taught me: the goal of the recruiter / HR is to get you to take the job for the least amount of cash. So when they ask if you're willing to work for $Y-20K, tell them "No. I am willing to work for approximately $Y." There's a chance that there is actually room in the budget to hire you and you'll get the job anyway. If not, then you move on. Good luck!
Tehhund
Right now is a difficult time to look for any job let alone an easier one or better paying. The market dictates what the employers can get away with. And right not they do whatever they want, it seems. Keep your job and benefits. Or at least compare a good salary/benefits with what the market offers. Bored with a job and feeling like you are taken for granted is a small price to pay right now.
JayRwv
Supply and demand is not on your side right now. There are plenty of competent people just desperate to get a job. Any company hiring can likely find their idea employee, and get him relatively cheap. I'm unemployed right now, and probably looking at a 20% pay cut to get off the dole. The 15% raise when you change jobs thing, if it isn't a total myth, only applies when the market dynamics are on your side. If you don't like with stay where you are. Or start your own company.
COD
The first thing to keep in mind here is that times are still really tough. As other people are saying...the employers have the upper hand. They can pay people significantly less money then they would if the economy was doing well. And because so many people are unemployed right now, they will find someone who is not only willing to take the job for a lot less money, but is probably overqualified. Welcome to the times we're living in. Keeping that in mind I would encourage you to stick it out in your current job for a bit. Unless it's making you physically ill. Which if that's the case, please find another job. But right now you've got a good job, with good benefits and a good salary. You're very lucky. Now...if you still really want to go for a different job you can negotiate if....you're willing to lose a job offer because of money. Which actually you're in a good position to do because you have to figure that even if you can't find what you're looking for...you've still got a great job. So you have nothing to lose. So...just tell a prospective employer what you want. Be firm, be confident. If they can't give you anything close to what you're asking, you walk away...because you can. You have a decent amount of power because you have that good job. But please...don't quit your job unless you have another one. And if you're seeking employment with outside companies...don't let your current employer find out. You could be fired on the spot. Hope this helps.
ljs30
I also don't understand how the core company is non-profit and I make more than the sister company who is for profit yet they want to pay me less and hit me back down to what I made five years ago? You're equating salary with performance only, which isn't the whole story; ultimately, employers are looking to get a qualified employee for the lowest amount possible, and with the number of experience people out of work, they're likely to get it for less than your position's salary now. It sucks, but you that's why careers and salaries aren't linear progressions upwards. You may be best served to stick it out in your good job now, wait for the economy to improve, and make a move when there's more of a scarcity for experienced employees who are desperate.
dflemingecon
http://ask.metafilter.com/176955/How-to-negotiate-a-lateral-salary-when-everyone-wants-to-cut-it#2546502"Also, I have a friend who is a really good/tough negotiator. She will ask for more, and then respectfully decline." This. If you're willing to walk away, then it's easy to sort our the companies that can't hire you at your desired salary from the companies that want you, but are lowballing your salary.
Tehhund
You're asking for 2 attributes in a job: that it be meaningful (ie, no office politics) and that it pay competitively (ie, equal to, or more than you earn now). I think you deserve both of those things. However, often it's really really difficult to find a job that offers one of those attributes, let alone both at the same time. There's negotiation skills, for sure, but there's also numbers. How many companies have you talked to? How are you going about looking for a job? Ultimately negotiation takes a back seat to research. Have been able to identify companies that can pay you what you want?
KokuRyu
Related Q & A:
- How To Sort a GridView Column When a Header Is Clicked?Best solution by Stack Overflow
- How do you negotiate a job offer?Best solution by Yahoo! Answers
- How to sell a product that nobody wants to buy?Best solution by Yahoo! Answers
- How to get a good salary job in the medical field?Best solution by differentmedicalcareers.com
- How to get a new title when you buy a car from a private seller?Best solution by dol.wa.gov
Just Added Q & A:
- How many active mobile subscribers are there in China?Best solution by Quora
- How to find the right vacation?Best solution by bookit.com
- How To Make Your Own Primer?Best solution by thekrazycouponlady.com
- How do you get the domain & range?Best solution by ChaCha
- How do you open pop up blockers?Best solution by Yahoo! Answers
For every problem there is a solution! Proved by Solucija.
-
Got an issue and looking for advice?
-
Ask Solucija to search every corner of the Web for help.
-
Get workable solutions and helpful tips in a moment.
Just ask Solucija about an issue you face and immediately get a list of ready solutions, answers and tips from other Internet users. We always provide the most suitable and complete answer to your question at the top, along with a few good alternatives below.