Will top universities accept me to their Graduate Program?

Can I take graduate courses before I'm enrolled in a Ph.D. program?

  • Can I take graduate courses before I'm enrolled in a Ph.D. program? Do any grad students do this? I am going to be graduating in two years, and I am thinking about entering graduate school for philosophy (in the USA). I am graduating one year early. During the time in between the completion of my B.A. and my enrollment in a Ph.D. program (possibly one year), would any schools let me enroll in graduate classes, and would the graduate program I enter recognize these credits? I would like to "get my feet wet" with a light course load. I know this is done all the time in undergrad institutions (the "non-matriculated student") but is this common at all for grad students? Can I pay to take graduate courses without being officially enrolled in their program? I suspect this is something I would need to ask each university (the university I want to take the class at, and then the universities housing the Ph.D. programs that I am thinking about applying to) but I was wondering if fellow Mefites have any information. I have heard that most Ph.D. programs build the M.A. into their program. Is this the way most people go in philosophy, or do most get their M.A. and Ph.D. at separate institutions? Also, if anyone can offer advice about pursuing a Ph.D. in philosophy it would be more than welcome. Thank you.

  • Answer:

    Yes, it's possible to take courses in between undergraduate and graduate programs. I took a graduate level course in psychology between my B.A. and M.A. Different universities will have different protocols regarding how to do this. However, I think it unlikely that any graduate program will give you credit for these courses. If you take a course during your time off, it'll probably be for your own edification only. Don't bank on anything else. I suspect this is something I would need to ask each university (the university I want to take the class at, and then the universities housing the Ph.D. programs that I am thinking about applying to) but I was wondering if fellow Mefites have any information. Here's my prediction: you'll speak with some departmental secreatary or graduate director who, if they don't say "no" flat-out, will sigh, say, "maybe... we'll see...", and refuse to commit to anything. Once you enter the program, that maybe will turn into a no. You still have two years before you're done with your undergrad... why not try to take some graduate level courses during your final year? Ask a professor who thinks well of you. He or she will probably let you attend his or her class. This will look good on your applications -- particularly if that professor writes you a letter of reference. Graduate programs in philosophy usually do fold the M.A. into the Ph.D., but some schools offer terminal M.A. programs. It can be worth doing a terminal M.A. if your undergraduate history won't get you into the program of your choice. I didn't do my undergrad in philosophy, so I completed an M.A. at Tufts in order to get into a good Ph.D. program (and it worked!). My route isn't standard, though. It's much more normal to enter a Ph.D. program directly from the B.A. If you have any other questions about graduate school in philosophy, feel free to e-mail me.

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I'm working on a Ph.D. in physics, and I know that many people in my program were able to get credit for grad classes taken before enrolling. That said, I'd imagine that physics curricula are very much more standardized than philosophy, so it's probably easier for departments in physics to interpret the level and quality of courses taken elsewhere than it will be in your case. But who cares? Taking a couple of grad classes is undoubtedly possible -- although it might be expensive -- and definitely a good opportunity. At worst, you'll have some valuable experience and will know what to expect when you get to the Ph.D. Plus, as has been mentioned above, it demonstrates that you're capable of doing the work in a grad-level course and increases the likelihood you get in to good programs.

dseaton

I took a few grad-level courses in my senior year of undergrad, and then had the opportunity of applying them to my Ph.D. courseload (electives, as nakedcodemonkey suggests). I didn't end up applying them, as I wanted to take more rather than fewer classes, but the option existed. Seeing as Hampshire doesn't have a grad program (from what I can see on their website), why don't you try to take some grad-level courses at UMass? I would definitely wait until your final year, but I don't see any problem with it (from a social standpoint; the bureaucracy of it, I have no idea). And I don't know you, so I'll assume you're the former, but just be careful not to be too precocious about it, as there is a very fine line in the graduate and faculty mind between "very interested and advanced undergrad" and "snotty know-it-all undergrad." All that said, wheat's suggestion of getting the reading lists for some of the required Ph.D. courses for places you'd like to apply is a great idea. You can get the profs' names from the course register and email them directly, and they should be glad to send it to you. The added benefit of this is that it will establish contact between you and the professors, thus making you a better candidate for admission to the programs. Again, though, I would wait until your final year to do this.

The Michael The

I missed this question the first time around; thought I would comment in case future searchers find it. If you get into a good graduate program in philosophy, you will not be able to transfer credits. The academic job market in philosophy is competitive enough that it only makes sense to go to grad school if you get into a good place. (Unless you are brilliant and incredibly self-motivated, in which case you might be able to transfer) But it could still be worth your time to take a grad class while you're still an undergrad (to give you a sense of what they're like, and to get a head start on the higher level of mastery expected of grad students). If you write a great paper for it, that could serve as your writing sample in the grad school application. Do not pay out of pocket to take grad courses after you graduate. Even if you can do it, it would be a waste of money. In general (unless you have money to burn), do not pay to get any kind of philosophy credential. In particular, if you are admitted only to grad schools that want you to pay them, then don't go. Never, never take out a large loan to finance a philosophy degree. (It may make sense to take out a small loan for living expenses.) Grad programs that have a chance of getting you an academic job in philosophy will fund you to some extent. It is not like law or medicine where you will eventually make big money to pay off a big loan. It does not make sense to get a "terminal MA" in philosophy in most cases. MA students do not usually get funding (Tufts is an exception and there are a few others), and the degree by itself doesn't qualify you to do anything you can't do with a BA. It makes sense if you need to improve an application to a PhD program, but otherwise not. So most good programs are PhD programs, usually 5 years as the stated length, and most students take longer than that to finish. In many of these PhD programs you automatically get an MA on the way to the PhD, but not in all. A final word: grad school in philosophy is not for everyone, not even for every intelligent student who likes philosophy class and gets good marks. Taking a grad class may give you some insight, and you should also talk frankly with your undergrad professors to get their take on it.

LobsterMitten

Could you stay at your current university for the fourth year and take grad courses there?

clarahamster

I suspect this is something I would need to ask each university (the university I want to take the class at, and then the universities housing the Ph.D. programs that I am thinking about applying to) I think this is probably a pretty accurate description of how this is going to work. As for taking graduate level classes, some universities will and some universities won't. I think it also depends upon the class you want to take. Certain required classes are often reserved for their incoming students. Regardless, you may find, after you enter a graduate program, that those credits are mostly useless. You're right about many Phd programs building the MA right into the program these days. In fact, it seems like students with MA's are sometimes at a disadvantage, depending on the school and their preference. If these credits transfer at all, they'll likely be elective credits. Also, some programs penalize you in funding situations if you elect to transfer graduate level credits. In my program (English), they'll dock you an entire year's funding if you transfer MA credits in. Because of this, even students with transferable credit and/or MA's elect NOT to use their viable credits because they want the extra funding. You'll want to consider this as you could potentially waste both time and money on credits you will later decide not to use.

theantikitty

I second clarahamster's suggestion that you attempt to take grad courses while at your undergrad institution, if they offer a PhD. You might have to go talk to the professor and clear it with him/her before enrolling, but I took a couple of grad classes as an undergrad and it was pretty par for the course. I wasn't in philosophy, and I wasn't at your university, so YMMV, but give it a thought.

matematichica

I took a summer grad course at the end of my second year for no credits, but the experience was well worth the effort. The workload was unlike any of my other classes, and the level of discourse was understandably higher. Give it a shot, if you have the hours to put in.

sixacross

If your target schools say that it's possible to transfer units, be sure to ask how many. When I checked a similar scenario a few years ago, 8 semester units seemed to be the max for graduate transfer. Also, they'll likely need to be applied as electives. Grad schools tend to feel that their combination of curriculum/faculty/students/research -- the experience as a whole -- is unique, and therefore no true equivalent can be obtained through study elsewhere. (They're not necessarily being snooty, by the way. Just the goals and direction of a given graduate program are very specific, so breaking from the plan is perceived as putting you at a disadvantage to peers. Since your performance reflects heavily on the school, there's a lot riding on getting you through the program "the right way".) Even if the classes won't transfer, if you can take some classes cheaply (financial aid or research grant), by all means give grad school a trial run now. It's a great way to gain an appreciation for which types of programs you're willing to commit 5-7 years to, and how different that program will be from your undergrad experiences.

nakedcodemonkey

I had a semester gap between finishing my B.A. and starting my M.A. (both in English). I took a graduate class in the interim--mostly to keep my head in the game. I think they counted it as an extra undergraduate elective (though I already had enough of those), since I hadn't been formally admitted into the M.A. program at that time (I did B.A. and M.A. at the same school). I could have petitioned to get them to count it, I guess, but it didn't matter to me, so I didn't bother. I did enjoy the class, though. I also got a taste of graduate school. So it was good for me. Why not just get a copy of the Ph.D. reading list and make some progress on that in your downtime? Might be time better spent than trying to deal with the red tape and hassle of transferring credits.

wheat

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