Money-chain letters are illegal, but why?
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OK, I now know that money-maker chain-letter implementation is illegal, but my big question -- why? Is it for the protection of dumb people? I'd have to say the fact that it didn't work is the protection of dumb people, but shouldn't be illegal. This may be the dumbest question ever, but seriously, explain to me how this could be wrong. How isn't all of this completely my risk, just like if I wanted to buy a lottery ticket if I wanted, because I wanted to risk it despite the odds? Ref: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/chainalrt.htm and http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/chainlet.htm I just got one in the mail and it seems promising and legitimate. The process makes loads of sense -- and it would be completely my fault of having lost any money from it. I understand a list broker (should I opt to buy from the one the letter suggests) would be getting loads of business, but really, is that not a legitimate business? There are thousands of list brokers who sell names just the same. I think the government should be obligated to inform the public of the risks involved, yes, but not outlaw it. If I want to try it out, that should be my own business. If I want to send a freakin' dollar in the mail I should be able to if I want, regardless of the purpose. This particular letter has the usual list of names (6) that you bump up and such. With the dollar to send to the 6 on the list, you also include a note remarking "add me to your mailing list." This is the service that the recipient provides the money-mailer, in exchange for the dollar. Even if I never get mailed anything, isn't it my business of whether I send a freakin' dollar to John Q. Emptypockets? So you bump the top person off the list, and add your name to the bottom. Then you send the same letter out to 200+ people after getting a list of names from a list broker (one is suggested, but I was going to use someone else because the person listed doesn't have a website although they do have a BBB record (and it's a good one)). Whether I am wasting my money pursuing these services is my freakin' business, and it should be set apart from the chain letter's fault because it's completely my choice. If you're just an idiot and fall for something dumb, I honestly think you deserve to lose whatever you lost. It was totally your risk! How does this not apply to any business ever conceived? Someone needs to spell out the 'mathematical impossibility' to me, as the USPS says. The letter remarks: "How does it work? When you send out 200 letters, it is estimated that at least 15 people will respond and send you $1.00 (15 people x $1 = $15). Those 15 people mail 200 letters each and 225 people (15people x 15 responses each = 225) will send you $1.00 ($225). Those 225 people mail 200 letters and get 15 responses, meaning 3,375 people send you $1.00 ($3,375). Those 3375 people mail 200 letters and get 15 responses, and 50,675 people send you $1.00 each ($50,675). Those 50,675 people mail out 200 letters each and get 15 responses, meaning 759,385 people send you $1.00 each. At this point your name drops off the list, but you've got $813,615." Sure, you may not always get 15 people each time, you could get more or less, but it varies per each mailing. The people you are mailing out to are individuals who have requested money-making opportunities within the last 30-60 days, so it's the right demographic, not just some random person from across the street. Even if you only got 2 responses out of 200 at one point, their particular mailings could snag 30, and shake up the mix but you'd still end up with a fair bit of change, if it was done right (yeah yeah "IF" it was done right -- but that's part of any risk, ever -- IF the ropes are strong enough, IF the parachute was folded properly, IF there's enough gas in the tank, etc.) But, if it turns out profitable for that person, they may mail the same letter out again to a new list, which pretty much doubles your chances of branching off the tree in a new direction and getting even more, such as if it worked so well that the 3rd person mailed the same letter again to 500 people this time. Your name would still be on the same row, and you'd get the same amount of dollars as the mailer did responses from that particular segment. It's not cheating someone out of something, it's all very plain-as-day explained right in front of you, is it not? How could that possibly be fraudulent?
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Answer:
Uh-oh, guess that "Funky Sock Exchange" chain letter I did could get me in trouble!
vanoakenfold at Ask.Metafilter.Com Visit the source
Other answers
Wiklipedia has a couple of great articles about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme, as someone above mentioned (but didn't link).
mrbill
Vanoakenfeld: Don't listen to the worrywarts. I have a foolproof method of making money that only requires an outlay of $10, which you can send to me (email for contact info), which is much less than the outlay for 200 envelopes and postage. (Prepares instructions for Vanoakenfeld for asking strangers for money on the internet). PROVEN RESULTS. (Or, in other words, perhaps those who disagree with laws to protect them from their own stupidity are proving the utility of said laws).
klangklangston
I guess it comes under something like "obtaining money on false pretences"? But there's no actual crime, except misleading the restaurant guy, who has himself intended to obtain money on false pretences. It's the fact that A + B are working in collusion to deceive C that makes the transaction fraudulent. And, while it may seem that C is intending to behave fraudulently against A as well, there is no legal obligation to inform a seller of the true worth of a thing being sold when making a purchase. Having said which, if C's attempt to purchase the item from A also involved active deception (no, that's not a real stradivarius, you can tell by the way it doesn't have his initials written in magic marker pen on the back), then possibly fraud would have been committed as well. It's worth remembering, though, that the act of one crime doesn't negate the prosecutability of another. So, even if C had been attempting to purchase A's violin using fraudulent means, that doesn't mean A + B haven't committed fraud in deceiving C as to the true worth of the violin.
planetthoughtful
(BTW, I love hearing about clever scams, loved American Gods because of all the scams contained therein.)
breath
Ambrose, I don't think the restuarant guy is intending to obtain money on false pretences. He's merely made an investment which he believes to be profitable. It's not illegal to buy something off of someone who doesn't know its true worth. Also, intending to obtain money on false pretences isn't the same as actually obtaining money on false pretences, so the restaurant guy in the clear in that regard as well. I'm not sure of the specific reason why it's illegal, but imagine if it wasn't: it would be impossible to obtain good advice on spending your money, because everyone could conceivably be in league with a seller. Truth in advertising is regulated for the same reason, and disclosure laws also cover the same ground. Imagine how the scam would be if Guy B disclosed that he stood to benefit if the restaurant guy bought the violin.
breath
Pyramid scams, by the way, can be devastating to small communities Or even http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2000/03/jarvis.htm.
thanotopsis
Can I tack on a question I was seriously considering asking? Why are some con tricks illegal? I just read an example of a con in American Gods.Guy A goes into a restaurant, says he unfortunately can't pay, and leaves his violin as security.Guy B examines violin and declares it to be worth fifty grand, leaves his business card.Guy A comes back to pay and restaurant guy, rather than giving him the other guy's card, buys worthless violin off him for five grand.I guess it comes under something like "obtaining money on false pretences"? But there's no actual crime, except misleading the restaurant guy, who has himself intended to obtain money on false pretences.
AmbroseChapel
Interesting comments here. I always assumed that pyramid schemes were illegal not to protect the stupid, but because there was no simple way to tax the income that the few successful people receive from it.
pazazygeek
Right, it is just like buying a lottery ticket. And just like running your own lottery, sending chain mails is illegal. Actually, that's not really the case. It's unlikely that the overwhelming majority of people who buy lottery tickets are being led to expect a profitable return each time they buy a ticket. Lottery results are published, and anyone interested can inform themselves of the reality that only a lucky few win anything substantial from them. Pyramid schemes work on a different dynamic: the promise that everyone who participates can / will profit. They don't explain that the only way to profit from even a very popular pyramid scheme is to be in one of the very top echelons of the distribution chain (ie in one of the first few levels beneath the con artist who initiated the scam); everyone else will either receive only a part of what they invested, with the overwhelming number receiving nothing at all. It's the predictability of this outcome, along with no attempt to disclose that predictability, that makes it fraudulent. And, let's face it, how much serious thought would you give it if the email / letter contained the clause: "Disclaimer: 70% of the participants in this scheme, which probably includes you, are going to get absolutely nothing. Join now!" Pyramid scams, by the way, can be devastating to small communities when they take hold. We had an example not too many years ago in a small town to the north of where I live where people were being threatened and assaulted by friends, family members, neighbors, coworkers etc for refusing to participate in that particular scheme, as people who had 'invested' became more and more desperate to see any return at all on their money. The reason why they're particularly cruel for small communities is that most people know most other people in the community, so it becomes common knowledge who has had the common sense to stay out of the scheme, and they often get blamed for why the pyramid is collapsing. So, illegal, and very much should be.
planetthoughtful
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