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  • ClaimsCourtFilter: A web design client of ours had a verbal contract with us, approved both the design and the logo, and then reneged due to a "misunderstanding," after most of the work had been completed. (This is ridiculously long because I'm also wondering if we're out of line or insane here, or if we're in the right. Basically: Verbal contract with client, did work, she reneges at very end to go with someone else. [If named anchor links work...] Here's the long-winded breakdown: Met client through a networking group we're a member of. The member who referred us did so to his boss, whom we met with twice and spent several hours discussing things with. After meeting a second time and further fleshing out their requirements, we presented a physical contract which she opted not to sign at the time, so we could perhaps drop a feature and save some money. (We determined it would be a negligible savings for her and told her so. She still wanted the "new" contract.) During this time, because we had a rapport through the networking group, we wanted to streamline this production, sent it off to our designers and had them crank out a complete logo and site design pretty rapidly. She approved (in email) the logo AND the site design and effectively gave a go ahead and a "what's next." Upon reviewing our contract again, she questioned (at 10am) the following clause:Authorization. The above-named Client is engaging [us], as an independent contractor for the specific purpose of designing a website to be published on a [us-owned] server.She asked if she'd be required to host with us, or if she could continue using her existing host, and closed with: "Once I hear back from you I will get this signed and cut the check." In meetings all day, we replied at 4pm:The reason we push our clients to use our servers for hosting is because we can guarantee a level of service that we cannot when using another host. There is frequently a number of settings or applications not installed or properly configured, and it stands to impede us and slows down our development time while we wait for their support to make the necessary changes.(This is completely true and our basic philosophy since we charge an almost-negligible amount for hosting, but we had discussed this earlier in person, and she seemed to understand and be okay with it, so I didn't think I was coming on strong here.) She replied at 5pm:I understand why you want to host the site what I am asking as I asked in the first meeting is it absolutely necessary? I can find out what they will or will not support prior to any work being done. I need to find out how long I have paid for and I don’t want to just throw it away and I am not 100% ready to move again. Both times I have moved my hosting it was a nightmare. I need to know if you are still wanting to proceed even if we do not move our hosting right away?We replied within the hour stating that, since their site used ASP, we knew they were not on a PHP (which we required) package, and thus, didn't know if they could switch within their current provider. We closed with: As we have mentioned during our discussions, you will not have to host with us but you will need to use a host that provides PHP and MySQL. We currently have the new site running in one of our development servers to work out a few more design tweaks so that the site matches a bit better with the logo/color you selected. Let me know how much time is left on your contract with 1and1 and when/where/if you would like to re-launch the site on a different server or not.This is where it gets weird. She responds three days later with a letter from her hosting company saying she can jump to a PHP server no problem, but that:It is my understanding I would just need to convert my 1&1 package to linux should we use your content management design. Due to this set back I have decided to interview a couple other web design companies that do not require us to have our site hosted with them. Should I decide to use the logo you have created what would this cost be? I will wait to hear from you in regards to the logo.From here, she continued with the interviewing of other clients, accused us of not being ethical, and further stated that we were clearly not connecting with her expectation of customer service. Within about two days. We made several calls to our point man, the guy who initially referred us and was there throughout all emails and meetings. She complained that we hadn't called her, despite the fact that we did last week (she wasn't there) and that our phones also ring. (They don't just dial.) This is all by way of saying that I think she's being unreasonable, and trying to back out by latching on to the smallest chink she could find. She went on about how "this isn't about the money, it's about customer service," and how "other web design companies knew the ins and outs of 1&1's hosting plans, and I would expect you to know the same." Clearly, there's a lesson learned in not performing work without a completed, signed physical contract and a retainer check in hand, but again, there were extenuating circumstances, and we figured they were good for it, so to speak. Our course of action is as such:Invoice for work completed anyway. Since most of it is done (and not just the logo), and was authorized, I'll attach the emails wherein she granted authorization, highlighted, and send it certified mail.Have lawyer (friend) draft letter demanding payment.Bring to small-claims court. (It's at the upper level of the small claims side of things.)Are we crazy? Or did we have authorization to proceed? What can we expect from small claims court? A tame form of Judge Judy style justice? I know we file through our court and they're served a notice to appear. Are we liable for anything if we lose? What can we do to be prepared? Any idea what our chances might be with a verbal contract? (In Arizona) We are talking to some lawyer-folk, but I want to know if we're just insane from an outsiders perspective, or if she's trying to weasel out here. And more, for personal experiences with small-claims court. Thanks for reading (skimming) this sojourn of a post. And for your experiences/take on things.

  • Answer:

    I would tell her that to use your logo it will cost her 80%?, 90%?, 100%? of the original contract terms, but you will throw in the rest for free. Also, that if she decides not to use the logo, you will be billing her for time. Have a lawyer write that up nicely. Mention the person who introduced you. You're not crazy for wanting to be paid, but i have no idea about the merits of right or wrong except to say that as excerpted, from your point of view, it sounds like she freaked and is a flake. It does not sound like she is trying to get something for nothing as she offered to buy the logo and she is not in possession of the work. She likely id have some bad experiences with changing hosts and is in an irrational panic about it.

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we figured they were good for it No one, not even a relative (ESPECIALLY a relative) is ever good for it. Get 1/3rd money up front, before you lift a finger with any new client. Before you lift a second finger, they have to sign the contract. Explain this to them in business terms. Are we crazy? Or did we have authorization to proceed? Yes, you're crazy for proceeding without contract and money. No, you did not have authorization to proceed because we presented a physical contract which she opted not to sign at the time You let her not sign the contract. Don't do that. Do you really want to take this woman to court? She's already badmouthing you guys, do you need that attached to your rep? Call her up and tell her you'll let her host elsewhere at the same price. If she agrees, fine, just remind her that you're not responsible for certain things. If she STILL plays hardball, then you know she's a flake for sure. Decide if you really want to take her to court and continue dealing with her. Or you could knock 20% off the price and offer that to her, in the interest of meeting her "customer expectations" so she goes away happy.

Brandon Blatcher

From her PoV, you've sprung something major (she'll have to move to new technology and hosting) which wasn't part of the contract negotiation, on her at the last minute, . I really think you failed to keep your client fully informed here; you need to get round a table with her, explain that you understand her concerns, and see what you can salvage. At the very least, you need to walk away with your reputation intact.

Leon

Start by sending her a bill, and if she doesn't pay it, take her to small claims. I took a client to small claims and won a couple of years ago; my company received compentsation for work done in a very similar situation. Small claims was pretty easy. If you have written doc you should have no problem. And yeah, the contract thing. Big red flag. But we all make those kinds of mistakes and it doesn't mean she should get away with stiffing you. Even without the contract you did, in fact, have authorization to proceed-- you had written authorization via email.

miss tea

You are not out anything provided she pays for the services rendered so far, which from your description is design only. Bill her and see what happens. But in her eyes all you did was the design. So bill her appropriately.

Gungho

I know everyone is going to emphasise the unsigned contract, and I agree, but as the focus of your message seems to be all other associated events I might pick that... I don't see the issue in her wanting to host elsewhere (regardless of what a great deal you might give). If you're absolved of the responsibility for maintaining service, then the choice is hers, right? If you chose a technical platform that didn't suit her existing arrangements then she has every right to look elsewhere. I'd expect that a more technically oriented person (which I'm guessing she's not) may have made such a constraint clear up front however. One of the other points you raised was if you folks should know about the hosting capabilities of different providers: "other web design companies knew the ins and outs of 1&1's hosting plans, and I would expect you to know the same." - I've got to admit I agree with her. At the least, you should have found out her provider and researched the possible different account options she may have had. Makes it easier to explain to her the possible transition (e.g. "stay with 1&1 and ask them to activate X on your account", or "you'll need to move to package B" etc). The hosting contract is hers, (and it's one she signed!) if she didn't want to move, she shouldn't. Sure, get some $ for the logo which she liked, but seriously, move on.

kaydo

You should have pointed out at the beginning that you were going to have to host the site yourself, especially if she already has an existing site. In her eyes, not signing the contract means she doesn't have to pay. You should not have proceeded with any work without her understanding she'd have to pay for your development time on the preliminary site even if she didn't sign the contract for the full site. What sends up a red flag is that she's hosting with 1&1 and doesn't want to move. She's not using that "three years free" package from their offer a couple of years ago, is she?

MegoSteve

My advice is to send her a price for the logo, tell her you're sorry for the misunderstanding, ask if she'd like to meet to try to clear up the misunderstandings, and forget the lawyer / small claims court. Your company handled this thing less than professionally. I'd take it a lesson learned: Don't do any work for which you expect to get paid, until you have a contract signed. Had you waited until the contract was signed, you would have had to have hammered out the hosting arrangements before you wasted any time working for her. If you insist on hosting projects (which is, in and of itself, not a problem, but which may rightfully be seen as a problem by some customers), then you would have cleared this point up before getting started with any work.

syzygy

She approved the site design. Did she approve the web development? I do feel sorry for you but don't go ahead with a process until you've informed the client of exactly what they are getting. I'd charge for the logo which she will pay for and just let the rest go. That's the professional thing to do imo.

twistedonion

This dog is gun shy. She got burned in the past, as she stated, and doesn't want it to happen again. She probably doesn't know the difference between an ASP and a space ship. ***BUT*** You know, if you expect to get paid, you need a signed contract! You screwed up. Question is how bad do you want to screw this up further? My advice is to extend a big olive branch, write her a letter of apology and say you made a mistake- who cares about the reality. Give her the logo and let her know you are still available and ready to work. You would have to be crazy to go to court as you can be sure she will tell each and every contact she has about her horror story with you.

bkeene12

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