Is it difficult to transfer to NYU?

Should I transfer from NYU Stern to the University of Washington?

  • I'm currently a freshman in his first year of college at the NYU Stern school of business on track for a BS in General Business. I'm considering transferring to the University of Washington for pre-med, the reason primarily because upon further deliberation and the observance of the general lifestyle of business people, I am unsure whether the lifestyle is for me. Further elaboration: The networking part of business is the part with which I take the most issue. I'm an INTJ, and am not quite comfortable with the amount of social interaction required for being successful with business; namely with regards to the fact that success in business is highly dependent upon one's connections, etc. Indeed, I feel that medicine would be a more rewarding career path, due not only to the fact that I am more interested in scientific subjects than I am financial subjects, but also that the lifestyle would require considerably less social stress. So far, a list of pros and cons I've constructed is as follows: Pros: Cheaper tuition (60k a year compared to ~12k a year at UW) A more interesting field of study An environment in which it is far easier to get a better GPA Medicine seems to require less social skills than business, and relies far less upon making connections than business I am originally from Washington, and live quite close to the UW (within ~5 miles), so I will be living closer to home (which is a good thing for me). Cons: By leaving Stern I will be abandoning an excellent opportunity at one of the best undergraduate business programs in the country I will have effectively "lost a year," because I will be taking completely different courses at the UW than at Stern--none of the classes I'm taking now would serve to fulfill pre-med requirements. By far my biggest qualm about transferring lies in the fact that I am afraid that I am giving up an excellent chance to enter the world of business, even though I know that I would probably be happier with medicine. Alternatively, I could remain for an additional semester (because UW doesn't accept transfers for the spring quarter) and give it some more time, but it would cost another 30k in tuition. However, the argument for this would be that it is always better to give big decisions in life a bit of time so that the heat of the moment, or any hasty decisions, can be avoided. Any advice is welcome.

  • Answer:

    I'm going to answer this question under the guise of two perspectives: as a fellow academician as a person who has worked closely with Admissions office at Caltech First of all, when deciding on what major you want to do - there is a special balance [much like a fine wine] between what interests you academically and what you want in life (for career goals, life goals, personal goals, etc). Focusing too much on either of these aspects will sour your taste for life. What you appear to realize now is that you're not the kind of person who may want to pursue a career that requires maintaining a strong social network, or rather, relies upon one in order to be successful. It is obvious that business requires knowing the right people or being at the right place at the right time for things to work out. Personally, I'm friends with someone who I consider to be business-saavy and we have done projects together where I've taken on the role of the developer and he has taken on the business-leader role. One of the reasons which I shy away from business is particularly because of the aesthetic/front-man aspect (I really hate dressing up, and I'm not good with phone calls). Now, apart from looking towards the future - you need to also deal with the present. Just how much planning can you do now and for how long before you decide to reap the rewards or enjoy yourself? Personally, I don't like the idea that you have to "suffer now" (in school) to "enjoy life later" (in the future). I'm not entirely sure why you decided on (a) pre-med, (b) University of Washington (UW). For example, if you decided you didn't want to do business because of this social aspect - why do you want to switch to a completely different field? Did you look at other colleges -- what makes UW so attractive or appealing to you academically? Pick a school that doesn't just give you academic freedom, but also provides those crucial extracurricular activities to de-stress and give you time to ruminate on your decisions. tl;dr - social networking is a fact of life; collaboration and having friends are good things to have. Schools are awesome if they're academically strong in your field of interest but also give you opportunities to branch out.

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Based on the pros and cons, moving to UW is the better option for you - especially since it's cheaper and you expect to be happier in pre-med (although, warning, you need a lot of dedication to get through med school!). Losing one year is not a big deal. There are general relevant comments I want to make too. First is about the future. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, getting an IT degree was all the rage. The employment market got saturated with IT degrees, and now there's lots of people who got this degree and aren't using it in their work (if they're even employed). The current fashion is getting a business degree. I have friends with psychology and biology PhDs but unemployed, and even they are going back to university to get an MBA so they can get a job. It even crossed my mind. This period will not last long. Soon enough, there will be all these people with business degrees but all the jobs already taken. Unless you have a special talent or dedication for it, you'll just have spent a lot of money for a degree that won't get you anywhere. On the other hand, doctors will always be needed, no matter what is happening in the world. The world can never have enough doctors, so that degree will serve you well. Even if you go to academia to do research, there is tons of money for medical and biomedical research, so you're also guaranteed a position. The second thing I want to bring up is about social requirements. I have no doubt that business requires a lot of social skills. But the sciences also require a certain degree of social skills, especially if you become a doctor and have to interact with patients. When you're in science, of course your CV is the primary way in which you get noticed, but there's also a large social networking aspect. That's the point of conferences. The dinners and hallway interactions are just as important as presenting research and posters. For an anecdote, I've sent my CV to a local research institute two months ago. No reply. A week ago, I gave a lecture at their seminar series with the heads of research attending. Now I have a good chance at landing a position there, because I impressed in-person (and I have zero social skills - my first introduction to one of the heads went like this: "Hi, I'm Head of Research." "Uhhh... cool." *1 minute silence* "Okay, I look forward to your talk.") So, summary: From the given details, move to UW because it's cheaper, you seem more excited for it, and it'll be better in the long-term. But while there will be much less need for social interactions, you will need to have them, especially if you're going to practice medicine.

Marc Srour

For a school like NYU Stern, the admissions process gets more difficult each year, so congratulations solely for that.  I will breakdown my opinions based on each of the pro's and con's you discussed: 1) Cheaper Tuition.  There is a price to be paid for everything.  Many people who go to Stern realize that after graduation, or even during via an internship, they will have the opportunity to seek out a high-paying job in and around the metro-NYC area, which arguably has the most business-related job opportunities in the world, whether in finance, accounting, information systems, marketing, or management.  Many individuals paying tuition via student loans or other debt take this on knowing that they will be rewarded with a Stern degree, a above-average starting salary, and the ultimate ability to pay off any student debt over time.  There are also multiple merit-based scholarship opportunities and business-related contests/projects sponsored by affiliates of Stern, where you can certainly earn something to offset the costs of tuition. 2) A More interesting Field of Study-As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.  Medical school, as told from my friends in NYU's pre-med program and other schools of varying difficulty, say that it's very time-consuming, frustrating, and often question if it's worth it.  That's why you see so many people who think they want to be doctors switch out of Pre-Med after taking their 1st or 2nd chemistry class.  Moreover, there are multiple majors, concentrations, and fields of study within Stern.  As you probably recognize at this point, many people are very Finance and Numbers-centric at Stern.  I was not one of them, although I entered the school as a naive freshman ready to take on Wall Street.  I ultimately double-majored in marketing and management, also graduating with a certificate in Stern's Entertainment, Media, and Technology Program.  I even took a bunch of film classes at Tisch.  That took me to Los Angeles, where I worked in the movie business after graduating for two years. 3) What I found is that for each class you take, there are sometimes multiple sections taught by different professors, and I would seek out previous students who took the classes to see which professors had a looser grading policy.  While they say there is a "Stern-curve" in place, I always found that there was wiggle room indicating the contrary.  Additionally, as you describe yourself as not the networking "type," if you don't want to seek out students to help aide in your quest for a better GPA, you can't have your cake and eat it too.  There has to be some form of peer-to-peer interaction for this. 4) You say medicine requires less social skills, however the successful practices are often times ones that have superior doctors who additionally ones with good beside manners.  In fact, there have been studies that show that doctors who possess a inferior bedside manner are more often the target for malpractice suits.  Even if they are technically superior doctors. 4) Proximity-I can somewhat relate to being far away from home, I moved cross country to Los Angeles after college graduation, with everybody I knew (family, friends, etc...) still on the East Coast.  It was a new life.  There is an adjustment period involved, but you have to put yourself out there.  If the convenience factor is something that you put as a priority, then studying at Stern may not be for you. As for your "Cons," they don't hold as much weight.  So you got into a great school, if it's not for you, your spot can easily be given to someone who would relish the opportunity.  As for wasting a year, you are young, and there are plenty of people who change their majors within college, or go back to school later in life.  No big deal!  Good luck! One final thought-be PROACTIVE.  There are resources at the school (whether at NYU or Stern itself) that can guide you to making an informed decision.  And don't be afraid to put yourself out there a little.  While it may not be in your personality, you will meet a lot of people who are more similar to you than you think and can certainly offer their own guidance as well!

Gregory Emmer

When we are young and driven we tend to think of a year gone as a waste.  It is not, you learned you aren't into this "business stuff". I am also an INTJ, I also found it hard at 1st to transition into the business world, but interestingly enough, I began to enjoy aspects of it and it helped me learn and communicate better with people. A doctor must socialize as much or more. Communication is key with the patient and the team. Even research and academia don't let you pursue your interests without it.  In fact it is worse.  Committees, Colleagues, Students, Post Doc's , Administration, etc..

Richard Tabassi

No one can make up your mind for you -- the best anyone else can do is cheer you on, and help you celebrate your own achievements. I'll put in a vote for medicine, as both my father and brother are medical doctors, and I've seen how their efforts are so morally sound (because of their work) that they have a personal sense of joy -- at having helped others. To be sure, business is all about serving peoples' needs in the community.  If you aren't thinking of your customers needs, then you won't be happy as a businessperson.  But I think medicine does so in such an intimate fashion that it really does make for a worthwhile effort and life.  The social interactions of a medical doctor are so role-specific, and you may enjoy this very much. A big caveat, however, is that medicine has been dumbing itself down in the US lately -- as more people specialize, and are therefore less likely to get as broad a medical education as they did in years past.  Residencies are certainly less broad than they were.  This condition may not serve the public so well, as generalists also tend to be more curious about any condition, and so may do better doctoring. I very much like your description and your pros and cons list.  I'm sure you won't go wrong in whatever you choose, as life is a journey, and not a destination, and you seem to have a wonderful process going on.

Daniel Helman

The Pacific Northwest is more culturally suited to introverts. My own family doctor is surely one, and we have a great clinical relationship (he is from Illinois, but went to med school at OHSU before establishing practice near Seattle).   I'm not sure how an introvert would thrive in NYC.

Daniel Luechtefeld

Honestly, its a strange question.  You're talking about two extremely different options.  Generally speaking I'd say if you're deliberating two such extremes, I wouldn't take any action until I'm more clear on my plan. That said ... I went to UW in undergrad and NYU for grad school.  I personally felt UW was a WAY better experience, particularly if you're an undergrad.  Also, I know it has a very good pre-med program. Though, I did meet a number of people who told me its extremely competitive and the weeder classes sent a lot of the ppl I knew who were in the program running to other majors.  NYU (and living in NYC) is an extremely expensive proposition if you're not completely confident about why you're there.  But, is social interaction really a good reason to back out of business?  Perhaps rather than focusing on leadership, look at more quantified opportunities such as becoming a financial analyst?   The fact that you're unsure about what do to, to me, is one of the best arguments for why not to go to an expensive private undergrad school.  Yes NYU' program is great but did you know UW's business program is almost in the top 20?  And with the much lower price, you'd feel a lot more free to pursue other possibilities while you're there such as pre-med classes,etc. Take the extra year that affords you and really figure out what you want to do.  Making a mid-career change later will cost you far more.

Neal Cabage

Take some premed requirements at NYU before deciding to transfer.  You may find you hate premed classes even more than the business lifestyle.

Jessica Su

I'm not going to tell you which school you should attend, or which program. What I will tell you is that you don't need to spend nearly as much time as you have wondering how this decision will affect your future career. You're what, 18 years old? No matter what you decide now, you will probably change your mind about your career at least five times in the next 15 years. And that's OK. You don't have to figure out right now whether you want to be a banker or a doctor. In fact, odds are you'll end up being neither. I've spent my career working in jobs that have nothing to do with my major, and in many cases didn't exist when I graduated college. My advice is to spend the next 3 1/2 years learning, stretching your mind and figuring out what you do and don't like. It's not so much that you don't have to worry about your career at all, but that you shouldn't worry about the long-term implications of whatever decisions you do like. If a profession seems interesting, take a class on it, talk to people who work in the field, try to get an internship. And if you don't like it, then move on and try something else. But most of all, relax. You have plenty of time to stress about your career.

Greg Horowitz

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