MBA (finance?

Which of these: MBA (Finance) or MS (financial Engineering or mathematical finance) or PhD(finance)) better for a maths lover and wants to enter finance industry as quant analyst or algorithmic trader?

  • I am deeply interested in quant and algorithmic trading and wants to enter the finance industry after finishing the course. I have keen interest in Maths too.

  • Answer:

    The right answer to this question most likely depends on what country you want to study and work in.  My answer applies to the US market, but things may be substantially different in, say, the UK.  (I assume you're from a Commonwealth country from your use of the term "maths", so apologies if this answer doesn't end up being very relevant to you.) Right off the bat, I think the right answer for someone with your interests is a master's in financial engineering/quantitative finance/mathematical finance.  These programs are generally pre-professional and tailored specifically to train people for the type of jobs you've listed.  Good programs include the ones on this list (http://www.advancedtrading.com/top-quant-schools-2012) and the top 10 of this one (https://www.quantnet.com/pages/mfe-programs-rankings/).  (Stanford also has a master's program in management science and engineering which is a bit more interdisciplinary but would probably give you similar job opportunities.)  If you look at the curriculum of a sample program from this list (say Haas MFE), you'll see that these programs are specifically geared toward giving you the mathematical and programming tools you need to work as a quant.  They also have a dedicated career placement office that, for the best programs at least, yield spectacular placements into top firms like Goldman, JPM, etc.  (It's worth looking into what departments these jobs are in, but presumably the vast bulk are in quant trading or related divisions.)  So if you're sure that's the kind of job you want after graduating, you can't really go wrong with one of these programs. A PhD in finance is a much more specialized beast.  First, to contradict what Sebastian Nagel said, in the US PhD coursework in finance is at least as rigorous as, and probably more so than, that of a FE master's programs.  At top programs (such as the one at the Stanford GSB, which I know the most about) you're expected to know going in a fair amount of what would be taught to you in a typical master's program.  The big difference is that in addition to coursework you are expected to devote several years to academic research, which is completely different from doing coursework.  Frankly, writing a thesis in finance will probably give you no technical skills relevant to a career in the finance industry.  So there's no reason to do a PhD unless you are actually interested in advancing the frontiers of knowledge about financial markets. Other concerns about the PhD: it takes much longer than a master's program (4-5 years versus 1); the career placement office is geared much differently (almost all PhD graduates look for tenure-track positions at US business schools); and the connections you make are totally different (you'll get to know a lot of people in academia, but very few in industry).  That said, my impression is that PhDs in finance from good schools who want to go into industry have a very easy time doing so; but this is primarily because they're very smart, driven people with good credentialing rather than because financial firms value the PhD per se.  So a PhD graduate who lands a job at Goldman could almost certainly have done so if he had attended a master's program instead.  Further, most PhD programs won't admit you if you tell them that your ambition is to go into industry.  You can always hide your intentions, but they're trying to act in your best interest in this case - the program likely won't be a good fit if you have little interest in a research career. Finally, an MBA (even one specializing in finance) is again geared toward a different market.  The MBA won't give you any new quantitative skills; in fact if you've taken a lot of math you're likely to be exasperated by the weak backgrounds of many of your classmates.  Instead an MBA will teach you (a little bit) about corporate finance, accounting, and private equity, and will give you (many, at a top program) connections to good partner- or c-track positions at corporations and financial firms.  If your dream is to make partner at Blackstone or become the CFO of a Fortune 500 company, an MBA from a top program like Wharton is a good fit.  If you want your job to focus on the math and programming side rather than the management angle, an MBA won't be helpful.

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I'm doing a http://M.Sc. in Quant Finance right now and I also have some contact with Ph.D. Finance students. The level of maths in my master is much higher than in the Ph.D programme. So from that perspective I would say go for something like that. On the other hand, every quant I met so far, was at least a master or Ph.D in Mathematics or Physics. So if you are keen in mathematics why not do pure maths? The finance stuff is usually just an application of more evolved mathematics and not too hard to learn once you have a background in mathematics. Also check: https://www.quantnet.com/forum/

Sebastian Nagel

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/53287/is-it-really-worth-undertaking-an-msc-in-finance/ Do people want to change their answers after reading the above article......? Given the reference to the article above, is it not better to have an MBA to acquire a broader perspective of the industry rather than an MS finance which gives very streamlined knowledge?

Anugrah Agrawal

Neither.An MBA Finance will not be mathematical enough. I simply will not give you sufficient depth and mathematical maturity to work in these fields. Needless to say, but there will be zero coding. Definitely stay away from it.MS (Financial Engineering/Mathematical Finance) teaches you the current "hot" topics. It was stochastic pde some years back, collateral modelling now, liquidity risk sometime in the near future. It does not give you the necessary skills to learn these things from first principles but rather packaged tools. So tomorrow if (say) AI becomes relevant to quant finance your education will be irrelevant and worse you wouldn't be positioned to learn and adapt. PhD (in any quantitative field) seems the most relevant from the choices you have mentioned since you have to come up with something original and you'd pick up all the aforementioned skills along the way. But its a darn long time just to get a job. The opportunity costs are huge.If you have an undergrad STEM degree already the best thing is to just apply. That is sufficient, you can pickup whatever you need on the job as long as your mathematics and coding is strong. If you still want to go for a degree*, I'd suggest an MS in a computer science, mathematics, electrical engineering, physics etc. Something where you will learn fundamentals rather than packaged tools. Take a combination of courses in mathematics (probability, linear algebra etc) and computer science (distributed systems, machine learning, system design etc). *There might be legitimate reasons for this. For example if you are a non US/UK resident an MS degree is a good step to get a job there. Or if you did not focus on mathematics/programming in your undergraduate it's not a bad step to take a couple of years to do that.

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