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Guitar chord theory question: 11/13 vs 13?

• guitar chord theory question: 11/13 vs 13? learning guitar chord theory and writings, I came across a site (http://www.learn-guitar-asap.com/list-of%E2%80%A6 listing (on the V mode) the chords 11/13 and 13. The site says these chords are be: 11: 1-3-5-7-9-11 13: 1-3-5-7-9-11-13 and then 11/13: 1-3-5-7-9-13 my logic says that this last chord should be written "9/13" instead of "11/13" there is no 11 in the chord at all The only logical conclusion is that this is a trick question in place to determine who (those who pose questions about the chord indication) has attained a guitar-enlightenment, and that Guitar Wan-Kenobi Joe Pass will now descend from the heavens and bestow onto me my Merit Badge of the Guitar Glory.

• Answer:

  You are essentially correct. The designation 11/13 is also not a standard designation. Let us also be a bit more introspective on to how we actually play such chords on the guitar. The first chord you have listed is the 11th chord consisting of a root-3rd-5th-7th-9th-11th. Try playing it! Aha! it is almost impossible isn't it! You only have 4 fingers and 6 strings. For a piano player it would be no problem but us guitarists have to consider the "economy" of the instrument itself. This would make the next chord (13th) absolutely impossible! (I am of course talking about playing a 6 string guitar with NO two handed tricks involved!) How do we actually play these extended voicings? Simple, we get rid of some of the notes! the first to go is always the 5th. This leaves us a root and a 3rd, essential for establishing the chord name and quality (major or minor), and a 7th, 9th, and 11th. Still a lot of notes to put in, but possible. Lets look at a C dominant chord to examine the possible voicings. The notes would be C E G Bb D ---3---fifth ---3---ninth ---3---seventh ---2---third ---3---root ---x--- This is a standard C9 chord. By barring across the 3rd fret with the ring finger we can easily accommodate the notes on the first three strings. This is a very standard version of the chord. Now lets try to add the 11th (F). We could put it in the bass and play the rest of the chord with the last three fingers which would give us a C9/F chord or a C11. Not so common, but doable. Ideally we would like to put it on top of the chord but this becomes a bit tricky, if not impossible! It is here that we need to get creative (again) and omit some more notes. By omitting the third we could play the root, 7th, 9th, and 11th (C-Bb-D-F) But wait! We can't omit the third! Or can we? Turns out we can and it is IMPLIED in the voicing of the chord. Ex; ---1--- ---3--- ---3--- ---x--- ---3--- ---x--- Technically this voicing is not major or minor because there is no third present but it is implied by the harmony of the scale (C major) This is an acceptable version of C11. We could also omit either the 7th or the 9th and include the third and their presence would still be implied. Lets look at the 13th chord. If we add an A into the existing chord we will definitely need to remove some voicings. The most common voicing for it would be to remove the 5th and the 11th and add the note of A on top: ---5---13th ---3---9th ---3---7th ---2---3rd ---3---root ---x--- Now all of this may seem confusing but the bottom line is that when playing extended voicings with the guitar you HAVE to omit certain voicings to accomplish the perceived overall effect. The last version of the chord you gave does NOT contain the 11th. It is similar to the chord I diagrammed that does not have the 5th or 11th. But both of those voicings are IMPLIED by the harmony. In standard classical harmony we build on the extensions of the harmony. In other words, you cannot have a 9th without the 7th present (or else it is just a 2nd) and like wise no 11th without a 9th etc. But what we find out with guitar is that this rule goes out the window! We HAVE to omit various voicings when we build extensions. I think that your 11/13 chord alludes to this dichotomy and the 11th, while not actually present, is IMPLIED. However, I have seen this type of nonsense used in the opposite manner, to identify a chord where both the 11th and 13th ARE present and some other voicings are omitted. Kinda sucks when you think that a piano player can simply play a nice C7 chord with his left hand and a D minor triad with his right to get all the correct voicings!